Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gadren 06-04-06, 11:13 PM	OK, so I like the Psurlon concept from Monster Manual 2, but the Average Psurlon CR is 5. It uses dominate person, mind fog, and hold person at will, with DCs around 18. Maybe thats not that bad if its just the one for the CR 5 encounter, because they are frail and go down easy. (Unless the DM does something devious like have them quaff a potion of invisibility.) But say your standard level 9 party (which is the level of the campaign I'm running) with four adventurers goes up against 4 Psurlons (4 CR 5s = EL 9). Chances are, half the party is getting dominated or held in the first round, and its not unreasonable that everyone get it in the first round! (Even a level 9 cleric with with an 18 Wisdom will fail that DC 18 40% of the time.) Anyone played with these creatures often have a better suggestion for CR? Or is there some factor I'm missing that make this creature less lethal than I thought.
runestar 06-05-06, 12:06 AM	Dominate can be countered by protection from alignment(or magic circle, if you all fancy clustering together). Mindfog is useless since if your party members fail that will save, said monster would be better off actually hitting you with a SLA that actually does something on a failed will save. Hold person allows a save each round, so its quite useless if its alone. As a EL9 encounter, your party will have access to freedom of movement, making hold person worthless. You said it's quite fragile in melee, so I doubt that will be a problem. ;) This monster is clearly one that relies on catching the PCs by surprise. Properly prepared, all its special attacks will be nullified and it should be readily overcome.
Gadren 06-05-06, 02:29 AM	Dominate can be countered by protection from alignment(or magic circle, if you all fancy clustering together). Mindfog is useless since if your party members fail that will save, said monster would be better off actually hitting you with a SLA that actually does something on a failed will save. Hold person allows a save each round, so its quite useless if its alone. As a EL9 encounter, your party will have access to freedom of movement, making hold person worthless. You said it's quite fragile in melee, so I doubt that will be a problem. ;) This monster is clearly one that relies on catching the PCs by surprise. Properly prepared, all its special attacks will be nullified and it should be readily overcome. Hold monster doesn't allow a save each round. I think your thinking of dominate. The use of mindfog is that if they fail against it, the multiple saves they get against dominate person are worthless. I don't think people realize how powerful hold monster is either. If all the party gets hit, they psurlons can perform coup de graces at their leisure.
runestar 06-05-06, 05:02 AM	Hold monster doesn't allow a save each round. I think your thinking of dominate. Both hold person/monster allow a will save each round to negate. :) The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.) I don't think you quite realise how easy it is to negate them either. ;) I admit a whole round of poor saving throws can spell doom for the party, but that's really a worst case scenario. At the very least, your party cleric/wizard should be able to make their saves a good part of the time, and the cleric can replace the fighter as a tank while the mage blasts them. Do they have any other defenses? How do they fare in melee?
General_Ridley 06-05-06, 04:29 PM	well, the book Lords of Madness has updated Psurlons (for 3.5) and while the CR remains the same, I feel I can point out a very major weakness they have. Fireball + a couple magic missiles can kill it.
Gadren 06-05-06, 06:00 PM	Both hold person/monster allow a will save each round to negate. :) I don't think you quite realise how easy it is to negate them either. ;) I admit a whole round of poor saving throws can spell doom for the party, but that's really a worst case scenario. At the very least, your party cleric/wizard should be able to make their saves a good part of the time, and the cleric can replace the fighter as a tank while the mage blasts them. Do they have any other defenses? How do they fare in melee? Wow, I never noticed that about hold person before. They can cast stoneskin on themselves once per day, so that certainly can help them in melee.
Gadren 06-05-06, 06:53 PM	well, the book Lords of Madness has updated Psurlons (for 3.5) and while the CR remains the same, I feel I can point out a very major weakness they have. Fireball + a couple magic missiles can kill it. You're right! Psurlons have been completely revamped in Lords of Madness. There spell-like abilities are much more reasonable now. Thankyou.