Arrow Demon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arrow Demon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Atirakis
04-24-06, 01:19 PM So heres my latest NPC and I was just wondering if I missed anything or if he has 15 attacks legit here.
“Insert Name” Male Arrow Demon Medium Speed 30'
Outsider/Ranger/Deepwood Sniper 10/11/7 LA +8 = ECL 36
Height 6’6 Weight 150 Skin Grey Eyes Glowing Green
HP 500 = 10d8+120 (180) (arrow demon) & 11d8+132 (200) & 7d8+84 (120)
AC 25 = 10 + 10 (dex) + 5 (natural) Touch 20 Flat-Footed 15
Base Attack +28 Grapple +38
Initiative +10

Str 24 (+7) Int 16 (+3)
Dex 31 (+10) Wis 18 (+4)
Con 34 (+12) Cha 12 (+1)

Fort +28 Ref +30 Will +16

Weapons & Attacks
2 Large Composite Greatbows (+7 Str)+40/+40/+40/+40/+40/+40/+35/+35/+35/+30/+30/+30/+25/+25/+25 2d8 (17-20 x5) Range 265’ +4 Keen, Speed

Special Abilities
Close Combat Shot (Ex)
Oversized Weapons (Ex)
Symmetrical Archery (Ex)
DR 5/cold iron & magic
Immunity to Electricity & Poison
Acid, Cold & Fire Resistance 10
Spell Resistance 27
Telepathy 100’ (Su)
Darkvision 60’
Favored Enemy, Outsider (good) +6 (Ex)
Wild Empathy (Ex)
Animal Companion (Ex)
Favored Enemy, Outsider (evil) +2 (Ex)
Woodland Stride (Ex)
Swift Tracker (Ex)
Evasion (Ex)
Favored Enemy, Outsider (lawful) +2 (Ex)
Keen Arrows (Ex)
Range Increment Bonus (Ex)
Concealment Reduction (Ex)
Projectile Augmented Critical (Ex)
Poison Use (Ex)
Take Aim (Ex)
Consistent Aim (Su)
Dimension Door Caster Level 10th
Magic Weapon Caster Level 7th
Keen Edge Caster Level 7th

Feats
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Far Shot
Swarm of Arrows (epic)
Weapon Focus, Greatbow
Improved Critical, Greatbow
Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (epic)
Track
Endurance
Improved Rapid Shot
Ranged Disarm
Combat Reflexes
Improved Precise Shot
savant_warlord13
04-24-06, 01:42 PM ECL means nothing for NPCs. you need to show some CR.
Atirakis
04-24-06, 01:46 PM ECL means nothing for NPCs. you need to show some CR.
Something like 30. I Adhoc based off of how tough the fight proved to be rather than relying solely on CR. If they paste a CR 20 monster then it wasnt really a 20th level challenge now was it?
Edit: Of course it is all situational
DeadEye19
04-24-06, 01:49 PM I'm pretty sure storm of arrows denies you all other attacks you have... And you can only benefit ftom speed with one of your two weapons.
And remember it has +8 level adjusment, and you just got him very deep into epic levels. In those levels, everything seems to deal a ton of damage; Even taking a stroll in your garden creates an encounter with bandits, that has the ability of droping a 10,000 lbs. boulder from your roof right on your head, once per round, as a standard action.Reflex half.
Atirakis
04-24-06, 01:54 PM He should get speed from both bows due to the Symmetrical Archery ability but even if not then he has 14 attacks not 15. Also he has storm of arrows but its not used to calculate how many attacks he gets thats all just your standard Full Attack listed there. Improved Rapid Shot is added in though.
savant_warlord13
04-24-06, 02:07 PM You cannot have a critical threat range of 17-20 with a bow. Nor can you take improved critical (projectile).

I cannot find any reference to the feat Improved Rapid Shot in the SRD
Atirakis
04-24-06, 02:34 PM Improved Rapid Shot is from Complete Adventurer or Warrior. The threat range is from Keen and it is house rule stacked with his keen class ability and Improved Crit. I wasnt aware that Improved Crit isnt available to ranged weapons. I will allow it anyway just for the greater threat it poses.
savant_warlord13
04-24-06, 02:36 PM Improved crit is available for ranged weapons, just not ammo
Atirakis
04-24-06, 02:40 PM Its a class ability of Deepwood Sniper
savant_warlord13
04-24-06, 02:52 PM Deepwood Sniper is a 3.0 PrC which was never updated due to being broken
Atirakis
04-24-06, 02:58 PM Really? I hadnt noticed. I am not looking for 3.5 legit here. I just want to make sure that I added everything up right and to see if anyone knew of any rules that were being broken.
dok
04-25-06, 12:07 AM BAB of +20 for the first 20 levels/HD gives 4 attacks with a full attack action.

Rapid Shot gives one extra attack with the Full Attack action for 5 attacks. Improved Rapid Shot eliminates the penalty associated with using Rapid Shot, but has no otehr effect.

Symetrical Archery doubles these attacks to 10 attacks.

The Speed enhancement would give one extra attack with each bow, for a total of 12 attacks. Symetrical Archery wouldn't double these attacks, because it's a magical property of the weapon, not a normal attack.

The Two-Weapon Fighting Feats (Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting) have no effect on archery, because the bow is a two-handed weapon, and those feats only apply when using a one-handed or light weapon in your off hand. The TWF tree does apply to one-handed thrown weapons, but not bows. Even if you thought they should, the Symetrical Archery ability clearly overlaps with these feats ("Any time the Arrow demon could make a single attack with a bow, it can attack with both its bows.. The Arrow Demon takes no additional penalties for using multiple weapons") instead of stacking with them.

So you've got too many attacks. It should be:

-2 (main)/ -2 (secondary)/ -2 (Rapid Shot)/ -2 (R.S. secondary)/ -2 (Speed)/ -2 (Speed secondary)/ -7 (main)/ -7 (secondary)/ -12 (main)/ -12 (secondary)/ -17 (main)/ -17(secondary)/ -22(main)/ -22(secondary)

I'd suggest taking Manyshot and Improved Manyshot to replace the TWF feats; with Symetrical Archery, you'd be firing 5 arrows each at two targets (or 10 arrows with two attack rolls at a single target) at -10, as a standard action. It's not as good as the Full Attack option, but it makes the Surprise round a bit more fun.
Atirakis
04-25-06, 12:54 AM THANK YOU thats what I was looking for was some rules clarification on TWF and his attacks. 12 is still pretty good. So what did you think of it?
DeadEye19
04-25-06, 05:16 AM Also, in epic levels, you don't get +1 AB each level. You get +1 epic bonus to attack every odd level, so the attack bonus is a bit lower(-4).
runestar
04-25-06, 05:45 AM Not to mention what would happen if you chanced upon a monk with infinite deflection...

Plus, arrows are all too easy to counter at epic lvs. :( Wind wall?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Atirakis 04-24-06, 01:19 PM	So heres my latest NPC and I was just wondering if I missed anything or if he has 15 attacks legit here. “Insert Name” Male Arrow Demon Medium Speed 30' Outsider/Ranger/Deepwood Sniper 10/11/7 LA +8 = ECL 36 Height 6’6 Weight 150 Skin Grey Eyes Glowing Green HP 500 = 10d8+120 (180) (arrow demon) & 11d8+132 (200) & 7d8+84 (120) AC 25 = 10 + 10 (dex) + 5 (natural) Touch 20 Flat-Footed 15 Base Attack +28 Grapple +38 Initiative +10 Str 24 (+7) Int 16 (+3) Dex 31 (+10) Wis 18 (+4) Con 34 (+12) Cha 12 (+1) Fort +28 Ref +30 Will +16 Weapons & Attacks 2 Large Composite Greatbows (+7 Str)+40/+40/+40/+40/+40/+40/+35/+35/+35/+30/+30/+30/+25/+25/+25 2d8 (17-20 x5) Range 265’ +4 Keen, Speed Special Abilities Close Combat Shot (Ex) Oversized Weapons (Ex) Symmetrical Archery (Ex) DR 5/cold iron & magic Immunity to Electricity & Poison Acid, Cold & Fire Resistance 10 Spell Resistance 27 Telepathy 100’ (Su) Darkvision 60’ Favored Enemy, Outsider (good) +6 (Ex) Wild Empathy (Ex) Animal Companion (Ex) Favored Enemy, Outsider (evil) +2 (Ex) Woodland Stride (Ex) Swift Tracker (Ex) Evasion (Ex) Favored Enemy, Outsider (lawful) +2 (Ex) Keen Arrows (Ex) Range Increment Bonus (Ex) Concealment Reduction (Ex) Projectile Augmented Critical (Ex) Poison Use (Ex) Take Aim (Ex) Consistent Aim (Su) Dimension Door Caster Level 10th Magic Weapon Caster Level 7th Keen Edge Caster Level 7th Feats Point Blank Shot Precise Shot Rapid Shot Far Shot Swarm of Arrows (epic) Weapon Focus, Greatbow Improved Critical, Greatbow Two-Weapon Fighting Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Greater Two-Weapon Fighting Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (epic) Track Endurance Improved Rapid Shot Ranged Disarm Combat Reflexes Improved Precise Shot
savant_warlord13 04-24-06, 01:42 PM	ECL means nothing for NPCs. you need to show some CR.
Atirakis 04-24-06, 01:46 PM	ECL means nothing for NPCs. you need to show some CR. Something like 30. I Adhoc based off of how tough the fight proved to be rather than relying solely on CR. If they paste a CR 20 monster then it wasnt really a 20th level challenge now was it? Edit: Of course it is all situational
DeadEye19 04-24-06, 01:49 PM	I'm pretty sure storm of arrows denies you all other attacks you have... And you can only benefit ftom speed with one of your two weapons. And remember it has +8 level adjusment, and you just got him very deep into epic levels. In those levels, everything seems to deal a ton of damage; Even taking a stroll in your garden creates an encounter with bandits, that has the ability of droping a 10,000 lbs. boulder from your roof right on your head, once per round, as a standard action.Reflex half.
Atirakis 04-24-06, 01:54 PM	He should get speed from both bows due to the Symmetrical Archery ability but even if not then he has 14 attacks not 15. Also he has storm of arrows but its not used to calculate how many attacks he gets thats all just your standard Full Attack listed there. Improved Rapid Shot is added in though.
savant_warlord13 04-24-06, 02:07 PM	You cannot have a critical threat range of 17-20 with a bow. Nor can you take improved critical (projectile). I cannot find any reference to the feat Improved Rapid Shot in the SRD
Atirakis 04-24-06, 02:34 PM	Improved Rapid Shot is from Complete Adventurer or Warrior. The threat range is from Keen and it is house rule stacked with his keen class ability and Improved Crit. I wasnt aware that Improved Crit isnt available to ranged weapons. I will allow it anyway just for the greater threat it poses.
savant_warlord13 04-24-06, 02:36 PM	Improved crit is available for ranged weapons, just not ammo
Atirakis 04-24-06, 02:40 PM	Its a class ability of Deepwood Sniper
savant_warlord13 04-24-06, 02:52 PM	Deepwood Sniper is a 3.0 PrC which was never updated due to being broken
Atirakis 04-24-06, 02:58 PM	Really? I hadnt noticed. I am not looking for 3.5 legit here. I just want to make sure that I added everything up right and to see if anyone knew of any rules that were being broken.
dok 04-25-06, 12:07 AM	BAB of +20 for the first 20 levels/HD gives 4 attacks with a full attack action. Rapid Shot gives one extra attack with the Full Attack action for 5 attacks. Improved Rapid Shot eliminates the penalty associated with using Rapid Shot, but has no otehr effect. Symetrical Archery doubles these attacks to 10 attacks. The Speed enhancement would give one extra attack with each bow, for a total of 12 attacks. Symetrical Archery wouldn't double these attacks, because it's a magical property of the weapon, not a normal attack. The Two-Weapon Fighting Feats (Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, and Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting) have no effect on archery, because the bow is a two-handed weapon, and those feats only apply when using a one-handed or light weapon in your off hand. The TWF tree does apply to one-handed thrown weapons, but not bows. Even if you thought they should, the Symetrical Archery ability clearly overlaps with these feats ("Any time the Arrow demon could make a single attack with a bow, it can attack with both its bows.. The Arrow Demon takes no additional penalties for using multiple weapons") instead of stacking with them. So you've got too many attacks. It should be: -2 (main)/ -2 (secondary)/ -2 (Rapid Shot)/ -2 (R.S. secondary)/ -2 (Speed)/ -2 (Speed secondary)/ -7 (main)/ -7 (secondary)/ -12 (main)/ -12 (secondary)/ -17 (main)/ -17(secondary)/ -22(main)/ -22(secondary) I'd suggest taking Manyshot and Improved Manyshot to replace the TWF feats; with Symetrical Archery, you'd be firing 5 arrows each at two targets (or 10 arrows with two attack rolls at a single target) at -10, as a standard action. It's not as good as the Full Attack option, but it makes the Surprise round a bit more fun.
Atirakis 04-25-06, 12:54 AM	THANK YOU thats what I was looking for was some rules clarification on TWF and his attacks. 12 is still pretty good. So what did you think of it?
DeadEye19 04-25-06, 05:16 AM	Also, in epic levels, you don't get +1 AB each level. You get +1 epic bonus to attack every odd level, so the attack bonus is a bit lower(-4).
runestar 04-25-06, 05:45 AM	Not to mention what would happen if you chanced upon a monk with infinite deflection... Plus, arrows are all too easy to counter at epic lvs. :( Wind wall?