Ashardalon: A Reaccuring Villian [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ashardalon: A Reaccuring Villian [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kraven_Redcloak
06-06-07, 12:18 AM Right me and my Dm have been talking about an upcoming campaign we've been planning for quite some time now that will be similar to the Year of the Rogue Dragons from Forgotten Realms.

I've recently convinced him that it would be a good idea to bring back some characters from previous campaigns we've done that our pc's failed to kill for one reason or another or, as in the case of Ashardalon, were given a poor, purely unbelievable senerio for the sake of defeating him (the guy who was DMing at the time thought dragons were all overated and made him a poor excuse of an encounter for the sake of defeating him and making it to epic level).

We're planning on bringing Ashardalon back, possibly a little stronger then he originally was in the Bastion of Broken Souls since 20 years have passed in game since we did that adventure and possibly as a key player in the events taking place in our world. Regrettably we lack a feasable excuse for him to leave the Bastion of Unborn Souls since his lifeforce was dependent on staying there.

At the moment the only way I see him escaping is for him to either become a god or find something stronger then the Bastion that could sustain him indefinately (I'm thinking consuming the magic from certain artifacts alu Dragonlance)
Dead_Weasel
06-07-07, 03:28 AM Although I am only familiar with Ashardalon in passing, specifically through the Draconomicon PrC and the Dragon Magic vestige, living in a place called the Bastion of ___ Souls sounds to me like a very good way to start using incarnum, which he could then conceivably use to sustain himself, since incarnum is soul energy. Necrocarnum soulmelds & abilities in particular would probably be right up Ashardalon's alley.
Kraven_Redcloak
06-07-07, 12:08 PM So what, you think that he should find a way to seperate souls from their bodies and use them to sustain himself in the material plane. -ponders- That could work but just in case any other ideas?
Mindolin
06-07-07, 08:29 PM Is it going to be as if he died or never did die? If it is the former, then have a crazy follower cast a resurrection spell on him. That should repair any damage done by certain evil druids. If it's that, then doesn't he have more children than just about any other dragon, even the really perverted ones? Couldn't one of them have trained as a cleric, and returned to give their dear father a simple regenration spell? Those are two possible ideas.
Kraven_Redcloak
06-08-07, 12:02 AM The latter. Since the senario we had was so unbelieviablely realistic (there is no way a single character should be able to take on a Great Wyrm, much less something like Ashardalon, in single combat and win) we're making it as though he never died and that adventure didn't accomplish anything.

Well what you have to understand is that the way we see it over here is that there aren't that many clerics out there powerful enough to cast a spell like that running around, you also have to take into consideration that, realistically speaking, even if you could find a cleric that powerful why would they want to heal/resurrect something that has a very real chance of turning on them. Also the way we play, spells that can regrow and reattach limbs like regeneration only work if you do it within a certain amount of time (a year at the most) otherwise they're useless. Ashardalon has been crippled for over a 1000 years so chances are nothing short of an epic spellcaster could heal him and even that is pushing it. But then that's just the way we play.

And yes a few of his offspring are still running around, particularly the two Kobolds (Po and Pemeka), that dragon that was paired up with Myra, and another red that we have running around that isn't tied to the adventure named Keshardalon (aka Pyro).
Dead_Weasel
06-08-07, 12:58 PM I took a look at the encounter with Ashardalon in the Bastion of Broken Souls and I am now pretty convinced that incarnum is a solid explanation for his escape. The stuff that Ashardalon is sitting in? That is incarnum, and very probably the inspiration for the Magic of Incarnum rulebook. The Bastion of Souls is described in the book, as a planar touchstone - a magical location that grants temporary powers to visitors with the right feat - and it corresponds to the Bastion of Broken Souls. Incarnum is, by definition, "an amorphous magical substance made up of the soul energies of all sentient creatures—living, dead, and, it is theorized, those even not yet born." Creatures that can manipulate incarnum do so because they can contain more of it than the average creature, and if Ashardalon could hold enough incarnum, he would be able to venture out of the Bastion, even if only for a limited time.

In particular, the Necrocarnate PrC would allow Ashardalon to draw incarnum from the recently dead, which would allow him to extend his stay outside of the Bastion. Whether or not Ashardalon would be able to manipulate his essentia as a normal meldshaper would depend on how much of it would be necessary to sustain him; he might need to keep a Strongheart Vest shaped at all times and invested with plenty of essentia.
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.02908ec935.jpg (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?02908ec935.jpg)http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.047155fbb6.jpg (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?047155fbb6.jpg)
Kraven_Redcloak
06-08-07, 03:09 PM That seems to be about the best idea though I'll admit I have a hard time seeing a dragon (a large one anyway) running around wearing soulmelds. Still I'll talk to my DM about it, we'll probably give him some levels in one of the incarnate classes/PrC along with some levels as Sorcerer to balance him out. I'll probably start working on giving him some more offspring for the future as well as a few fiendish allies. It might be cool to see him gradually work his way up to archfiend.
Dead_Weasel
06-08-07, 04:46 PM It is rather silly to imagine an ancient, extremely powerful dragon with a demon for a heart running around with soulmelds, but if pure soul energy is the only thing that can still keep him alive, then it makes a lot of sense for him to use the means available (necrocarnum) to drain it anywhere he goes, instead of being stuck at the source.

If you really do not want him to be a meldshaper, then replace one of his 4th-level sorcerer spells from being a dragon with rend essentia, or give him enough warlock levels to take the steal incarnum invocation - although the short duration on both of these effects means that he will need to use them constantly, just to keep himself at 1 essentia.
Phantos
06-08-07, 05:16 PM If I were in this situation, I would take the vestige and roll with it. Here's one of the most powerful enemies every described and your party has taken him down. Bringing him back albiet with different powers sort of cheapens that prior encounter, though it sounds less epic than you had hoped it to be?

In any event, having some traveler to the positive energy plane, particularly to the scene of that final battle, could spark a new BBEG. Perhaps he came to understand the mysteries of the planes and was the original discoverer or Ashardalon as a vestige. Neither living nor dead, Ashardalon enters existance through this character and they work together for some diabolical plot; maybe the host character isn't truly evil, but perhaps held captive, thus adding a new layer for the otherwise ultra-powerful epic character.

I just imagine the party running into someone with a gigantic ghost visage surrounding him would be more frightening than big ol' Ash flying by with soulmelds on.
Kraven_Redcloak
06-09-07, 01:01 AM So you're saying that his vestige should maybe possess a random NPC as a parasite/symbiote?

Whereas I think that could be a most interesting idea I must point out that while we do have access to Dragon Magic and Ashardalon's vestige, no one in our group actually has the Tome of Magic so we can't exactly acess the Soulbinder/Binder class.

Still, I'll think about it. Even if we don't use it right away we could still probably use that idea. Thanks for the imput.
runestar
06-09-07, 01:24 AM Wasn't he made a vestige in one of the newer splatbooks?:) Dragon magic or something?
sooperspook
06-09-07, 01:34 AM Funny thing about him being a vestige is, vestiges are divorced from Time and Space.

Which means two binders could easily have him bound at the same time AND he could be possessing the poor bugger/ fanatic cultist thats opposing the PC's.

Now that would be an interesting meeting. :D
Kraven_Redcloak
06-09-07, 10:16 PM You know I think the rules for Demonic Possessions in the Fiendish Cordex might work out pretty well for this senario.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kraven_Redcloak 06-06-07, 12:18 AM	Right me and my Dm have been talking about an upcoming campaign we've been planning for quite some time now that will be similar to the Year of the Rogue Dragons from Forgotten Realms. I've recently convinced him that it would be a good idea to bring back some characters from previous campaigns we've done that our pc's failed to kill for one reason or another or, as in the case of Ashardalon, were given a poor, purely unbelievable senerio for the sake of defeating him (the guy who was DMing at the time thought dragons were all overated and made him a poor excuse of an encounter for the sake of defeating him and making it to epic level). We're planning on bringing Ashardalon back, possibly a little stronger then he originally was in the Bastion of Broken Souls since 20 years have passed in game since we did that adventure and possibly as a key player in the events taking place in our world. Regrettably we lack a feasable excuse for him to leave the Bastion of Unborn Souls since his lifeforce was dependent on staying there. At the moment the only way I see him escaping is for him to either become a god or find something stronger then the Bastion that could sustain him indefinately (I'm thinking consuming the magic from certain artifacts alu Dragonlance)
Dead_Weasel 06-07-07, 03:28 AM	Although I am only familiar with Ashardalon in passing, specifically through the Draconomicon PrC and the Dragon Magic vestige, living in a place called the Bastion of ___ Souls sounds to me like a very good way to start using incarnum, which he could then conceivably use to sustain himself, since incarnum is soul energy. Necrocarnum soulmelds & abilities in particular would probably be right up Ashardalon's alley.
Kraven_Redcloak 06-07-07, 12:08 PM	So what, you think that he should find a way to seperate souls from their bodies and use them to sustain himself in the material plane. -ponders- That could work but just in case any other ideas?
Mindolin 06-07-07, 08:29 PM	Is it going to be as if he died or never did die? If it is the former, then have a crazy follower cast a resurrection spell on him. That should repair any damage done by certain evil druids. If it's that, then doesn't he have more children than just about any other dragon, even the really perverted ones? Couldn't one of them have trained as a cleric, and returned to give their dear father a simple regenration spell? Those are two possible ideas.
Kraven_Redcloak 06-08-07, 12:02 AM	The latter. Since the senario we had was so unbelieviablely realistic (there is no way a single character should be able to take on a Great Wyrm, much less something like Ashardalon, in single combat and win) we're making it as though he never died and that adventure didn't accomplish anything. Well what you have to understand is that the way we see it over here is that there aren't that many clerics out there powerful enough to cast a spell like that running around, you also have to take into consideration that, realistically speaking, even if you could find a cleric that powerful why would they want to heal/resurrect something that has a very real chance of turning on them. Also the way we play, spells that can regrow and reattach limbs like regeneration only work if you do it within a certain amount of time (a year at the most) otherwise they're useless. Ashardalon has been crippled for over a 1000 years so chances are nothing short of an epic spellcaster could heal him and even that is pushing it. But then that's just the way we play. And yes a few of his offspring are still running around, particularly the two Kobolds (Po and Pemeka), that dragon that was paired up with Myra, and another red that we have running around that isn't tied to the adventure named Keshardalon (aka Pyro).
Dead_Weasel 06-08-07, 12:58 PM	I took a look at the encounter with Ashardalon in the Bastion of Broken Souls and I am now pretty convinced that incarnum is a solid explanation for his escape. The stuff that Ashardalon is sitting in? That is incarnum, and very probably the inspiration for the Magic of Incarnum rulebook. The Bastion of Souls is described in the book, as a planar touchstone - a magical location that grants temporary powers to visitors with the right feat - and it corresponds to the Bastion of Broken Souls. Incarnum is, by definition, "an amorphous magical substance made up of the soul energies of all sentient creatures—living, dead, and, it is theorized, those even not yet born." Creatures that can manipulate incarnum do so because they can contain more of it than the average creature, and if Ashardalon could hold enough incarnum, he would be able to venture out of the Bastion, even if only for a limited time. In particular, the Necrocarnate PrC would allow Ashardalon to draw incarnum from the recently dead, which would allow him to extend his stay outside of the Bastion. Whether or not Ashardalon would be able to manipulate his essentia as a normal meldshaper would depend on how much of it would be necessary to sustain him; he might need to keep a Strongheart Vest shaped at all times and invested with plenty of essentia. http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.02908ec935.jpg (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?02908ec935.jpg)http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.047155fbb6.jpg (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?047155fbb6.jpg)
Kraven_Redcloak 06-08-07, 03:09 PM	That seems to be about the best idea though I'll admit I have a hard time seeing a dragon (a large one anyway) running around wearing soulmelds. Still I'll talk to my DM about it, we'll probably give him some levels in one of the incarnate classes/PrC along with some levels as Sorcerer to balance him out. I'll probably start working on giving him some more offspring for the future as well as a few fiendish allies. It might be cool to see him gradually work his way up to archfiend.
Dead_Weasel 06-08-07, 04:46 PM	It is rather silly to imagine an ancient, extremely powerful dragon with a demon for a heart running around with soulmelds, but if pure soul energy is the only thing that can still keep him alive, then it makes a lot of sense for him to use the means available (necrocarnum) to drain it anywhere he goes, instead of being stuck at the source. If you really do not want him to be a meldshaper, then replace one of his 4th-level sorcerer spells from being a dragon with rend essentia, or give him enough warlock levels to take the steal incarnum invocation - although the short duration on both of these effects means that he will need to use them constantly, just to keep himself at 1 essentia.
Phantos 06-08-07, 05:16 PM	If I were in this situation, I would take the vestige and roll with it. Here's one of the most powerful enemies every described and your party has taken him down. Bringing him back albiet with different powers sort of cheapens that prior encounter, though it sounds less epic than you had hoped it to be? In any event, having some traveler to the positive energy plane, particularly to the scene of that final battle, could spark a new BBEG. Perhaps he came to understand the mysteries of the planes and was the original discoverer or Ashardalon as a vestige. Neither living nor dead, Ashardalon enters existance through this character and they work together for some diabolical plot; maybe the host character isn't truly evil, but perhaps held captive, thus adding a new layer for the otherwise ultra-powerful epic character. I just imagine the party running into someone with a gigantic ghost visage surrounding him would be more frightening than big ol' Ash flying by with soulmelds on.
Kraven_Redcloak 06-09-07, 01:01 AM	So you're saying that his vestige should maybe possess a random NPC as a parasite/symbiote? Whereas I think that could be a most interesting idea I must point out that while we do have access to Dragon Magic and Ashardalon's vestige, no one in our group actually has the Tome of Magic so we can't exactly acess the Soulbinder/Binder class. Still, I'll think about it. Even if we don't use it right away we could still probably use that idea. Thanks for the imput.
runestar 06-09-07, 01:24 AM	Wasn't he made a vestige in one of the newer splatbooks?:) Dragon magic or something?
sooperspook 06-09-07, 01:34 AM	Funny thing about him being a vestige is, vestiges are divorced from Time and Space. Which means two binders could easily have him bound at the same time AND he could be possessing the poor bugger/ fanatic cultist thats opposing the PC's. Now that would be an interesting meeting. :D
Kraven_Redcloak 06-09-07, 10:16 PM	You know I think the rules for Demonic Possessions in the Fiendish Cordex might work out pretty well for this senario.