Assistance with Demons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Assistance with Demons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants
03-04-07, 12:45 AM So I need some help as a DM. I'm trying to design a "dungeon" and I'm populating it with mostly dretches and manes, there are a few rutterkin support/command. I need a decent CR 5-7 demon that can be in charge of the whole thing. Unfortunately most of the demons around that CR are assasin/spy/scout type and I want something more stand alone. essentially there is a small portal from one of the layers of the abyss to an underground cavern under the High Forest. Whatever "leader" demon found this small portal, essentially a fissure in the rock (requires DC 20 escape artist for a medium-size creature) and has been bringing dretches/manes through to excavate enough to find a route to the surface. He plans on waging his own private war whenever he finds a way to the surface and figures out where he is. The party will be 3rd going in to the dungeon, and will probably hit 4th before they face the "boss", they will also be provided with a few cold iron weapons, though mostly not their weapon of choice. The party consists of a warlock, warlock/fighter (scythe), rogue/ranger, swashbuckler, and barbarian. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

I also need suggestions for what the terrain might be like right around the portal. Any interesting hazards or terrain influenced by te Abyss.
Shan_TheBabau_Burke
03-04-07, 01:29 PM I'm not much good with demons and devils, but you might try demoting a baalor (or is it pit fiend that's the demon?) Either way, just take a few of its HD and its stronger powers and make it a very young one. A juvenile trying to make his mark in the world.
It would still be able to stand alone in a fight or you could add in some quasits or something, it would be a more physical fight then.
Not sure if that would work, but it might be kind of funny for them to face a baalor that early. The looks on your player's faces would certainly be worth it at least! :D
Domriso
03-04-07, 01:45 PM That idea wouldn't really work. Fiends sort of arise spontaneousy and don't really age.
Also, do you want a specific style of demon? What i mean is do you want the demon to act in a certain way. I'll put any CR 4 demons i find. Ekolid (Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss 38)- Basically a big bug. Geucubu (Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss 41)- An incorporeal creature that puts you to sleep and then steals your body. Could be interesting against them.
there are also a bunch of CR 5 creatures if you want to weaken them slightly.
There, that's my two copper pieces.
AlanBruce
03-04-07, 04:20 PM Well. I looked at the MM2 and found some low CR demons that could be used against your PCs (mind you, CR in this book is somewhat askew, so you may have to do some minor changes... or not.)

1. Abyssal Maw: given your party's configuration, I'm guessing they can afford
the scare this demon can provide with his special attack. (CR 2)

2. Abyssal Ravager: unimpressive alone. But send in a gang coupled with the
next guy and you got yourself a low level battle royale. (CR 2)

3. Abyssal Ravager: Be careful with this guy. Given that your party depends
heavilly on Strength, his special attack could severely cripple the PCs.
(CR 5)

The next two demons are also from the MM2, and could make good "boss" encounters.

4. Jovoc: DANGEROUS without a divine spellcaster or enough potions to go
around, but should make for an exciting (and somewhat long) fight. Couple
him with a few Ravagers for added fun. (CR 5)

5. Palrethee: I know that this guy may be too strong an opponent for your
party now, butif you set them up with the right treasure (or perhaps
decide to extend that dungeon to a few more levels, like 6), it could make
for an interesting "renegade guerilla commander" type villain. And once
again, with the martial formation you have in your party, they could have a
decent, if not challenging encounter with him. (CR 8)

Hope it helps!
Khael
03-04-07, 04:56 PM I'm not much good with demons and devils, but you might try demoting a baalor (or is it pit fiend that's the demon?) Either way, just take a few of its HD and its stronger powers and make it a very young one. A juvenile trying to make his mark in the world.
It would still be able to stand alone in a fight or you could add in some quasits or something, it would be a more physical fight then.
Not sure if that would work, but it might be kind of funny for them to face a baalor that early. The looks on your player's faces would certainly be worth it at least! :D

Balor is the demon. But you don't get young balors, seriously. They either rise up former grown (usually at the whim of an Archfiedn in this case) Or have to earn the rank. Those who fail... may or may not become palrethees (MM2), which I might suggest be used.

They're CR 8, but the dropping of a HD should drop it to acceptable. Also as they act in the chain of command so it would be well use to giving orders.
The alternative is a succubi. She would be equally a good use, limitng the portal output to those she can bully in her control, with the double of being a potential on-going enemy, if she gets to escape.

I wuold suggest Jovoc, but... if healing is limited its likely to lay down a lot of hurting to anyone who fights up close.

As for terrain... It's the infinite layers of the abyss! You can get any terrain you want in.
Domriso
03-04-07, 05:12 PM Planar bleeds can come in all shapes. Dessicated trees, black rocks, black ooze pooling, blood randomly pouring out of surfaces, ghostly visages appearing out of inanimate objects and screaming, just about anything you can think of. The more chaotic and disturbing, the better.
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants
03-04-07, 06:49 PM Thanks for the responses, I really like the bleeding rocks and ghostly visages. I would like the demon to stay Tanar'ri, just because they are more common and understandable evil. I really like the Palrethee, especially if I update it to 3.5 and allow its DR to be overcome by cold iron and good like most tanar'ri. It fits with the boss demon trying to kep the portal somewhat a secret, hoping that he can get his promotion to Balor. Though looking at palrethee, their treasure is "none" would it be too bad if I gave him standard treasure. I also want to use this to bring the party back up to wealth. They started at 2nd and really haven't gotten anything since then. Mostly RPing encounters or monsters without treasure.
Khael
03-05-07, 04:10 PM No you could give it treaure sure. The problem there is... why does a demon needs treasure it won't be using? You'll be ramping up the CR on an already powerful beasty, so a better route is to give it a store-room/treasury top keep all those goodies in.
cwslyclgh
03-05-07, 05:32 PM if the palrethee is a "renagade" who has been laying low on the material plane, perhaps it has collected treasure for itself to use as trade and barter at a later date, giving any individual palrethee treasure is not a problem, even if the average one encountered won't have any in general.
Andyr
03-05-07, 06:34 PM I used a quasit as an antagonist in a session recently. They could be the caretakers for someone or something else who's really in charge--perhaps the familiar of a wizard, or a creature bound as a steward. Although they're only CR3, you could bump them up with more HD or class levels.

Plus, the invisibility and alternate form abilities will assist in the quasit's getaway should things get too tough. ;-)
mvincent
03-05-07, 07:05 PM Some possibilities:
1) A fiendish or half-fiendish monster or humanoid (sometimes called an Incubus).
2) An advanced quasit
3) A Babau
4) A Succubus (best option, as these are the frequently 'mastermind' demons)

(check out this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10936474#post10936474) for additional help)
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants
03-05-07, 11:07 PM Some possibilities:
1) A fiendish or half-fiendish monster or humanoid (sometimes called an Incubus).

Isn't an incubus the male form of a sucubus. What you might be thinking of is a cambion?

I'm gonna go with a renegade palrathee and just give him a little treasure "room" that he has been collecting things in for bribes, seducing mortals, etc.
Coridan
03-06-07, 01:09 AM could always just add the fiendish template to another creature, or make it a cultist who summoned them all (look in BoVD for specific PrCs dedicated to a few of the demon lords. I prefer Graz'zt)
mvincent
03-06-07, 01:19 PM Isn't an incubus the male form of a sucubus. What you might be thinking of is a cambion?I was thinking of both actually, but you are correct: the half-fiend template was essentially created to represent things like cambions and alu-fiends... I've just used it to create other things (like an incubus) as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 03-04-07, 12:45 AM	So I need some help as a DM. I'm trying to design a "dungeon" and I'm populating it with mostly dretches and manes, there are a few rutterkin support/command. I need a decent CR 5-7 demon that can be in charge of the whole thing. Unfortunately most of the demons around that CR are assasin/spy/scout type and I want something more stand alone. essentially there is a small portal from one of the layers of the abyss to an underground cavern under the High Forest. Whatever "leader" demon found this small portal, essentially a fissure in the rock (requires DC 20 escape artist for a medium-size creature) and has been bringing dretches/manes through to excavate enough to find a route to the surface. He plans on waging his own private war whenever he finds a way to the surface and figures out where he is. The party will be 3rd going in to the dungeon, and will probably hit 4th before they face the "boss", they will also be provided with a few cold iron weapons, though mostly not their weapon of choice. The party consists of a warlock, warlock/fighter (scythe), rogue/ranger, swashbuckler, and barbarian. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. I also need suggestions for what the terrain might be like right around the portal. Any interesting hazards or terrain influenced by te Abyss.
Shan_TheBabau_Burke 03-04-07, 01:29 PM	I'm not much good with demons and devils, but you might try demoting a baalor (or is it pit fiend that's the demon?) Either way, just take a few of its HD and its stronger powers and make it a very young one. A juvenile trying to make his mark in the world. It would still be able to stand alone in a fight or you could add in some quasits or something, it would be a more physical fight then. Not sure if that would work, but it might be kind of funny for them to face a baalor that early. The looks on your player's faces would certainly be worth it at least! :D
Domriso 03-04-07, 01:45 PM	That idea wouldn't really work. Fiends sort of arise spontaneousy and don't really age. Also, do you want a specific style of demon? What i mean is do you want the demon to act in a certain way. I'll put any CR 4 demons i find. Ekolid (Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss 38)- Basically a big bug. Geucubu (Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss 41)- An incorporeal creature that puts you to sleep and then steals your body. Could be interesting against them. there are also a bunch of CR 5 creatures if you want to weaken them slightly. There, that's my two copper pieces.
AlanBruce 03-04-07, 04:20 PM	Well. I looked at the MM2 and found some low CR demons that could be used against your PCs (mind you, CR in this book is somewhat askew, so you may have to do some minor changes... or not.) 1. Abyssal Maw: given your party's configuration, I'm guessing they can afford the scare this demon can provide with his special attack. (CR 2) 2. Abyssal Ravager: unimpressive alone. But send in a gang coupled with the next guy and you got yourself a low level battle royale. (CR 2) 3. Abyssal Ravager: Be careful with this guy. Given that your party depends heavilly on Strength, his special attack could severely cripple the PCs. (CR 5) The next two demons are also from the MM2, and could make good "boss" encounters. 4. Jovoc: DANGEROUS without a divine spellcaster or enough potions to go around, but should make for an exciting (and somewhat long) fight. Couple him with a few Ravagers for added fun. (CR 5) 5. Palrethee: I know that this guy may be too strong an opponent for your party now, butif you set them up with the right treasure (or perhaps decide to extend that dungeon to a few more levels, like 6), it could make for an interesting "renegade guerilla commander" type villain. And once again, with the martial formation you have in your party, they could have a decent, if not challenging encounter with him. (CR 8) Hope it helps!
Khael 03-04-07, 04:56 PM	I'm not much good with demons and devils, but you might try demoting a baalor (or is it pit fiend that's the demon?) Either way, just take a few of its HD and its stronger powers and make it a very young one. A juvenile trying to make his mark in the world. It would still be able to stand alone in a fight or you could add in some quasits or something, it would be a more physical fight then. Not sure if that would work, but it might be kind of funny for them to face a baalor that early. The looks on your player's faces would certainly be worth it at least! :D Balor is the demon. But you don't get young balors, seriously. They either rise up former grown (usually at the whim of an Archfiedn in this case) Or have to earn the rank. Those who fail... may or may not become palrethees (MM2), which I might suggest be used. They're CR 8, but the dropping of a HD should drop it to acceptable. Also as they act in the chain of command so it would be well use to giving orders. The alternative is a succubi. She would be equally a good use, limitng the portal output to those she can bully in her control, with the double of being a potential on-going enemy, if she gets to escape. I wuold suggest Jovoc, but... if healing is limited its likely to lay down a lot of hurting to anyone who fights up close. As for terrain... It's the infinite layers of the abyss! You can get any terrain you want in.
Domriso 03-04-07, 05:12 PM	Planar bleeds can come in all shapes. Dessicated trees, black rocks, black ooze pooling, blood randomly pouring out of surfaces, ghostly visages appearing out of inanimate objects and screaming, just about anything you can think of. The more chaotic and disturbing, the better.
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 03-04-07, 06:49 PM	Thanks for the responses, I really like the bleeding rocks and ghostly visages. I would like the demon to stay Tanar'ri, just because they are more common and understandable evil. I really like the Palrethee, especially if I update it to 3.5 and allow its DR to be overcome by cold iron and good like most tanar'ri. It fits with the boss demon trying to kep the portal somewhat a secret, hoping that he can get his promotion to Balor. Though looking at palrethee, their treasure is "none" would it be too bad if I gave him standard treasure. I also want to use this to bring the party back up to wealth. They started at 2nd and really haven't gotten anything since then. Mostly RPing encounters or monsters without treasure.
Khael 03-05-07, 04:10 PM	No you could give it treaure sure. The problem there is... why does a demon needs treasure it won't be using? You'll be ramping up the CR on an already powerful beasty, so a better route is to give it a store-room/treasury top keep all those goodies in.
cwslyclgh 03-05-07, 05:32 PM	if the palrethee is a "renagade" who has been laying low on the material plane, perhaps it has collected treasure for itself to use as trade and barter at a later date, giving any individual palrethee treasure is not a problem, even if the average one encountered won't have any in general.
Andyr 03-05-07, 06:34 PM	I used a quasit as an antagonist in a session recently. They could be the caretakers for someone or something else who's really in charge--perhaps the familiar of a wizard, or a creature bound as a steward. Although they're only CR3, you could bump them up with more HD or class levels. Plus, the invisibility and alternate form abilities will assist in the quasit's getaway should things get too tough. ;-)
mvincent 03-05-07, 07:05 PM	Some possibilities: 1) A fiendish or half-fiendish monster or humanoid (sometimes called an Incubus). 2) An advanced quasit 3) A Babau 4) A Succubus (best option, as these are the frequently 'mastermind' demons) (check out this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10936474#post10936474) for additional help)
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 03-05-07, 11:07 PM	Some possibilities: 1) A fiendish or half-fiendish monster or humanoid (sometimes called an Incubus). Isn't an incubus the male form of a sucubus. What you might be thinking of is a cambion? I'm gonna go with a renegade palrathee and just give him a little treasure "room" that he has been collecting things in for bribes, seducing mortals, etc.
Coridan 03-06-07, 01:09 AM	could always just add the fiendish template to another creature, or make it a cultist who summoned them all (look in BoVD for specific PrCs dedicated to a few of the demon lords. I prefer Graz'zt)
mvincent 03-06-07, 01:19 PM	Isn't an incubus the male form of a sucubus. What you might be thinking of is a cambion?I was thinking of both actually, but you are correct: the half-fiend template was essentially created to represent things like cambions and alu-fiends... I've just used it to create other things (like an incubus) as well.