Associated Classes (and centaurs :D) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Associated Classes (and centaurs :D) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Edmon
02-18-06, 04:50 AM On page 294 of the Monster Manual, there is a section on associated classes. I want to make a centaur druid, but it says in on page 294 that 'a spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells...'

Does this mean that if I were to make a 7th level centuar druid it would be CR 6? (CR 3 as a base, plus 3.5 -- see page 294.) Or should I use the centaur entry on page 32 ('centaurs sometimes become bards, rangers, or druids') to justify setting its CR to 10? That's quite a big leap in CR, so I'm quite interested to hear opinions on the matter...
Edmon
02-18-06, 12:47 PM Oh dear. No responses. Can anyone help me?!?!
Athanatos
02-18-06, 04:31 PM The 1/2 CR per level only applies until you have more class levels than you have HD. So your 7th level Centaur Druid is CR 3 + 2 + 3 = 8.
Edmon
02-19-06, 07:22 AM Erm...yes, good point!

Even so, why should Druid be a nonassociated class for centaurs?
runestar
02-19-06, 08:58 AM I guess its because you are already 3 lvs behind in spellcasting, and wildshaping offers little over what physical prowess the centaur already offers? I dunno, sometimes, what constitutes an associated class is very hard to determine. For example, paladin, a fighter class, is apparently considered a non-associated class for a succubus. :eek:
Athanatos
02-19-06, 11:58 AM Basically, playing a caster class with a race that has LA and/or racial HD is suicide unless the race has natural spellcasting or serious bonuses to INT, WIS, or CHA. What would make a centaur druid a harder fight for a group of PCs than a human druid? More HP and more strength, really, though the strength would get overriden in wild shape. I'd say that the additional HP is about worth the +1 CR you get from a mid/high level Centaur druid compared to a mid/high level Human druid.

As for what's associated and what's nonassociated, just try to think of what the base creature, without classes, fights most like. Is it a big, hulking bruiser? Fighter and barbarian are probabl associated classes. Does it rely heavily on spell-like abilities and various other magic? The magic-oriented classes are probably associated. Is it a stealthy little bugger? Ranger and rogue are probably associated. It's really hard, however, to determine some of the borderlines. Ah well, sometimes you just have to go with your gut.
Count Arioch the 28th
02-19-06, 12:08 PM Erm...yes, good point!

Even so, why should Druid be a nonassociated class for centaurs?

Because anything with monster HD suck at casting spells, unless they have innate spellcasting (See Rakshasa for what I mean by that. Or Dragons.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edmon 02-18-06, 04:50 AM	On page 294 of the Monster Manual, there is a section on associated classes. I want to make a centaur druid, but it says in on page 294 that 'a spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells...' Does this mean that if I were to make a 7th level centuar druid it would be CR 6? (CR 3 as a base, plus 3.5 -- see page 294.) Or should I use the centaur entry on page 32 ('centaurs sometimes become bards, rangers, or druids') to justify setting its CR to 10? That's quite a big leap in CR, so I'm quite interested to hear opinions on the matter...
Edmon 02-18-06, 12:47 PM	Oh dear. No responses. Can anyone help me?!?!
Athanatos 02-18-06, 04:31 PM	The 1/2 CR per level only applies until you have more class levels than you have HD. So your 7th level Centaur Druid is CR 3 + 2 + 3 = 8.
Edmon 02-19-06, 07:22 AM	Erm...yes, good point! Even so, why should Druid be a nonassociated class for centaurs?
runestar 02-19-06, 08:58 AM	I guess its because you are already 3 lvs behind in spellcasting, and wildshaping offers little over what physical prowess the centaur already offers? I dunno, sometimes, what constitutes an associated class is very hard to determine. For example, paladin, a fighter class, is apparently considered a non-associated class for a succubus. :eek:
Athanatos 02-19-06, 11:58 AM	Basically, playing a caster class with a race that has LA and/or racial HD is suicide unless the race has natural spellcasting or serious bonuses to INT, WIS, or CHA. What would make a centaur druid a harder fight for a group of PCs than a human druid? More HP and more strength, really, though the strength would get overriden in wild shape. I'd say that the additional HP is about worth the +1 CR you get from a mid/high level Centaur druid compared to a mid/high level Human druid. As for what's associated and what's nonassociated, just try to think of what the base creature, without classes, fights most like. Is it a big, hulking bruiser? Fighter and barbarian are probabl associated classes. Does it rely heavily on spell-like abilities and various other magic? The magic-oriented classes are probably associated. Is it a stealthy little bugger? Ranger and rogue are probably associated. It's really hard, however, to determine some of the borderlines. Ah well, sometimes you just have to go with your gut.
Count Arioch the 28th 02-19-06, 12:08 PM	Erm...yes, good point! Even so, why should Druid be a nonassociated class for centaurs? Because anything with monster HD suck at casting spells, unless they have innate spellcasting (See Rakshasa for what I mean by that. Or Dragons.)