Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Iron Cobra 06-17-05, 06:46 AM	Anyone who knows Predator well, look at the Astral Stalker in MM III, it is a near carbon copy of the Predator from movie fame. It even has skull as trophies in the picture. Minus the obvious technology and slight physical differences, it is basically a Predator in the D&D sense. :weep:
Slagger the Chuul 06-17-05, 07:58 AM	A creature with something like souped-up ranger abilities that likes to hunt? It doesn't sound like such a surprising idea. Considering that heads or skulls are pretty common as trophies, I don't think that's good grounds for a connection, either. To be honest, after all the various creatures that have been created, it's not so surprising that one of them might vaguely resemble a Predator. Thinking on the whole thing, isn't a predator just like an alien version of the redneck with a few gadgets? I imagine that in the past predators dressed up in hunter's orange and spent the weekend hiding in the bushes with a rifle. :)
Iron Cobra 06-17-05, 08:23 AM	That is not the only connection, READ THE ENTRY. It also has "Rules of the Hunt" which are basically what Predators follow, attacks like "Throat Dart" , Climb ranks up the wazoo (a la Predator in trees/ LA), hard to track, high camoflauge. It says "they come from across the multiverse searching new quarry to hunt for sport, giving prey chances" If you do read it, you'll see a connection.
Gez 06-17-05, 08:40 AM	How dare they invent new monsters that are based on other sources? After all, it's not like TSR... http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_81.jpg http://cache.tias.com/stores/mmkt/pictures/3046a.jpg ... was guilty... http://vanvogt.www4.mmedia.is/images/large/worldsunknown_blackdestroyer_big.jpg http://www.planetadnd.com/interactive_books/displacr.gif ... of such a thing! Seriously! What will they rip off next? Poul Anderson and his green-skinned, long-nosed, stinking, regenerating trolls? Richard Shaver and his Deros, introducing a race of degenerate, sadistic dwarves capturing people and leading them underground to perform insane, perverse experiments on them? Jack Vance and his magicians surrounded by clouds of Ioun Stones orbiting their heads and giving them strange powers? JRR Tolkien and his race of tree-people, the Ents? And why not psionic powers or horribly evil creatures with a head that looks like a squid? Me is sad and outraged. :rolleyes:
MinionOfCthulhu 06-17-05, 04:20 PM	Best post ever.
Sildatorak 06-17-05, 05:19 PM	Gez, you do bring up a valid point. It is just sad that they are bringing up things from so recent as the 1980's. Damn, I just felt old. Oh, you also have one small error in your sig. Apostrophes are used for plurals when the thing that is pluralized is either a letter or an acronym (five PC's or "I received three A's last semester").
Ront Iron-Roar 06-17-05, 05:43 PM	Darn you, you beat me to the bunny thing! :eek:
Contrast 06-17-05, 06:01 PM	I'm astounded that someone actually knew the origin of the Derro. Good show.
Slagger the Chuul 06-17-05, 10:14 PM	That is not the only connection, READ THE ENTRY. It also has "Rules of the Hunt" which are basically what Predators follow, None of which are unusual for someone who hunts prey as a hobby. attacks like "Throat Dart" , Climb ranks up the wazoo (a la Predator in trees/ LA), Can't commment, not that familiar with what predators have in this respect. I didn't specifically remember climbing, but that's just one skill and since they can't fly, climbing is the next best thing. Climbing is usually less visible, too, which makes for a better hunt. hard to track, high camoflauge. High-grade versions of abilities the ranger has, and who'd be more like a hunter than the ranger? It says "they come from across the multiverse searching new quarry to hunt for sport, giving prey chances" An astral creature and they hunt across the planes; that's not all that amazing. If you do read it, you'll see a connection. They don't even look similar, and the abilities bear only a vague similarity which is completely predictable for any plane-hopping hunter. An expert hunter who hunts widely, uses hunting techniques of stealth, and has a code of hunting. Predators may be a nice example of an expert hunter, but not every expert hunter must be a predator. What sort of skills would you expect them to give a planar hunter?
Iron Cobra 06-17-05, 10:45 PM	Look, the point is, someone was inspired or motivated by Predator and applied much of it to the Astral Stalker. trying to dis-associate it or say it's not even in the same league of ludicrous.
Aphyosemion 06-18-05, 02:57 AM	I think the point that the others are trying to make is that many things are either inspired or stolen from other places. It is nothing new. In the case of the astral stalker though, I have to say the connection is tenuous at best. Any type of intelligent hunting creature would have a passing resemblance to the predator. It climbs trees? It collects trophies? It hides? Wow, those are unique abilities for a hunter. :rolleyes: -Aphyosemion
was_fired 06-18-05, 03:23 AM	I was sort of dissappointed that the creature makes no sense as they never mention how they move out of the astral plane onto a plane where their tracking, hiding, and climbing would mean almost anything.
Callahan 06-18-05, 03:51 AM	I was sort of dissappointed that the creature makes no sense as they never mention how they move out of the astral plane onto a plane where their tracking, hiding, and climbing would mean almost anything. Don't be daft. Obviously a wizard did it.
Slagger the Chuul 06-18-05, 06:02 AM	I was sort of dissappointed that the creature makes no sense as they never mention how they move out of the astral plane onto a plane where their tracking, hiding, and climbing would mean almost anything. Plane shift 1/day would be nice, but maybe it's supposed to use portals. In between changing planes it would just take the time to hunt the best creatures on the current one.
Purkake 06-18-05, 08:32 AM	Better hope it makes the Knowlage:planes check or it will end up hunting on some nice outer plane or inner plane. And there it will become the hunted one.
Iron Cobra 06-18-05, 08:38 AM	:heehee
R.M.G.C.L.F. 06-18-05, 11:01 AM	I hate that people can't accept the fact that two people, working independantly, may come up with similar ideas. A hunter monster is a pretty universal and easily concieved concept.
Iron Cobra 06-18-05, 11:03 AM	I hate you too
Wyrd Bearer 06-18-05, 11:14 AM	I hate that people can't accept the fact that two people, working independantly, may come up with similar ideas. Its true. I can (no I can't, I really have no proof) claim that China Mieville reached into my head with psychic powers and stole my idea for scabmettlers from back when I was a child and I first though of them myself, but no, because when people think alike, they tend to come up with similar ideas. There is nothing wrong with that. But if WotC called the astral stalkers yjanta(or however its spelled), gave them a spear gun, retractable claws and a hunting mask with various visual modes, then they might just have crossed the line.
Iron Cobra 06-18-05, 11:16 AM	They are known as the Yautja :)
Josh_Kablack 06-18-05, 11:19 AM	Sure, the flavor text is lifted right out of Dark Horse's Predator vs. D&D, but mechanically, the Astral Stalker has less in common with the Predator than does the Ogre Mage. I mean in the movies, we do not see the predators use poison, dealing extra damage when attacking by surprise, fire any sort of throat dart, use anything that looks like evasion or use it's Cha bonus for anything but intimidation (certainly not for getting a deflection bonus to AC). I'll grant that Swift Tracker, Elusive Prey and Camoflague are decent attmepts to represent Predator abilities. I'll also grant that a Jump bonus 8 points in excess of what it should be is a viable representation of the Predator's leaping ability. Now if they were listed as wearing armor, using weapons (melee and ranged, and one of the ranged attacks should be an area of effect),having concealment (not hide in plain sight by another name, and not quite invisibility either, but definitely concealment) and having a Death Throes ability, then I might buy that they were supposed to be the predator.
Iron Cobra 06-18-05, 11:24 AM	Death Throes to represent self-destruct...nice touch! :cool: Also, what is the Dark Horse Predator vs D&D? :confused:
O_Menda 06-18-05, 12:24 PM	Also, what is the Dark Horse Predator vs D&D? :confused: I must confess I've read some Dark Horse comics but I never found one like this or something similar. Anyway, I think that the Stalker doesn't seem like a Predator to me, both are hunters and so but nothing more.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 06-18-05, 12:25 PM	I hate you too There's no need to flame. I'm saying I hate the overall concept/perception that everything is stolen from everything else, and that people never think of things that happen to bear vague resemblance to one another. ><
Sildatorak 06-18-05, 04:44 PM	I hate the overall concept/perception that everything is stolen from everything else The word you're looking for her is "inspired by." Many of the astral stalker's abilities are very predator-esque. They aren't direct rip-offs, but the sheer quantity of similarities means that there is most likely some linkage. Camo and code of the hunt can probably be dismissed, but extended darkvision (120') and the throat dart (long ranged attack that essentially is save or die, much like the thing with the triangular laser pointer target thing) combine with them (along with the fast movement, crazy climbing, and crazy jumping) to suggest that there is at least some inspiration, particularly when people who would likely have seen Predator as youths are now designing monsters for WotC.
urial angel of death 06-18-05, 09:03 PM	for game mechanic if you wanted to include predators you could say that, astral stalker has a common ansestery with predator like, neanderthal(sp) and humans
Count Arioch the 28th 06-18-05, 09:13 PM	Look, the point is, someone was inspired or motivated by Predator and applied much of it to the Astral Stalker. trying to dis-associate it or say it's not even in the same league of ludicrous. Ah yes, the "Every who disagrees with me is stupid" argument. Next, Iron Cobra will say that anyone who says D&D isn't satanic must be in league with the satanists themselves, and therefore lying!
Iron Cobra 06-18-05, 09:33 PM	Ah, the " I shall alter another's words to discredit them and place a statement below that they would NEVER say, but sounds ridiculous in itself" Which is stupid, considering I play D&D, therefore if you wanted to align a statement by which someone like "myself" would say, pick something more realistic. Sorry Count, you aren't winning any points coming onto a thread and offering nothing but negative feedback leveled at the poster himself. Better luck next time. :) Thanks for seeing some of my points of view, Sildatorak. By the way, i associated the Throat Dart with the Plasmacaster(the shoulder mounted ranged weapon the Pred uses) Note that i'm not saying WOTC should suddenly be suded for infringment of any sort, however the resemblance on this where it was probably not intended to come off as Predator-like is pretty big. Of course there are more direct examples like trolls, elves and other things such as the displacer beast and loxo as mentioned, but those have the intent of being based completely or majorly off their forfathers. That's different of course, and visually aside (which i admitted to), it could be perceived as such.
Count Arioch the 28th 06-18-05, 09:37 PM	Ah, the " I shall alter another's words to discredit them and place a statement below that they would NEVER say, but sounds ridiculous in itself" Which is stupid, considering I play D&D, therefore if you wanted to align a statement by which someone like "myself" would say, pick something more realistic. However, you DID say that everyone who disagrees with you is stupid by virtue of disagreeing with you. I win.
Iron Cobra 06-18-05, 09:41 PM	You're either misquoting or putting words in my mouth, pick one, i prefer direct quotes and not proposing them as such in my own light to others. However, you did such to me, so i did such to you. Equal treatment. :) And also I "assume" you like to come to threads where someone jangles your spurs and soon focusing on them, rather than the subject title itself-you know, petty things like supporting views, opposing views, opinions on the subject, coroboration with other posters. :P
mrurbanitesmiley 06-19-05, 12:42 AM	OMG! This is so right! I did some searching, and found out that some guy name mary shelly thought up the flesh golem, only he called it 'frankenstien'. he should really sue Wizards for such a massive idea thieving. Also, they stole elves from J.R.R. Tolkien, and Vampires from Vlad Tepes. For SHAME! Seriously, what's wrong with Wizards making a predator clone, assuming it is a predator clone as you describe it. You seem to know alot about Predators. Have you ever thought it might be fun to transfer the predator from movies to D%D? Dungeons and Dragons isn't supposed to be a font of original ideas. it's supposed to be an RPG. Being inspired by a movie, book, or something isn't bad.
Iron Cobra 06-19-05, 02:06 AM	They stole animals from nature ;)
Callahan 06-19-05, 02:09 AM	OMG! This is so right! I did some searching, and found out that some guy name mary shelly thought up the flesh golem, only he called it 'frankenstien'. he should really sue Wizards for such a massive idea thieving. Also, they stole elves from J.R.R. Tolkien, and Vampires from Vlad Tepes. For SHAME! Idiot. Frankenstein is the scientist, not the monster. :P
Gez 06-19-05, 03:41 AM	some guy name mary shelly Well, I hope you know Mary Shelley was a girl, and only called her a guy to make your post more sarcastic. ;)