Attack and Full Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attack and Full Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
drift150
03-13-05, 02:23 PM Me and my DM ar having a discussion over something that appears in the monster manual.

If you look at, for example, any elemental, you'll see in the table that the single attack and full attack are diffferent.

Attack: Slam +20 (2d6+10)
Full Attack: 2 Slams + 20 (2d6+10)

As you can see, the full attack says 2 slams. What is it supposed to mean? I think that, since it says two slams, one should use two slams (2 attacks with a +20 bonus to attack roll, each one dealing 2d6+10 damage), while the DM thinks it's only 1 attack, which wouldn't make sense (in my opinion).

Can anyone help us sort this out? thanks a lot in advance.
d_nychus
03-13-05, 02:27 PM 2 slams, two attacks.
Morwen
03-13-05, 02:53 PM It's just like for any old Monk. If he moves before or after the attack, he can only use his fist once. Otherwise, he can use his fists twice (or more, depending on BAB). He'll still have to roll to hit for both :)
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-13-05, 06:14 PM You're right. Multiple attacks are always listed with what one attack does. Elementals have two "arms". An elemental makes an attack as listed with one arm, and then another attack as listed with the other.
Antioch
03-14-05, 04:51 AM The first line of any monster entry details its primary attack method (in the elemental's case, a slam attack, which is essentially a punch). Any creature with more than one natural weapon is capable of leveling multiple attacks using a full-attack action, regardless as to whether it has the requisite attack bonus that say, a human needs to make more than one sword attack per round with a sword (because humans have no natural weapons like a bite, claws, stinger, etc).
Sticking strictly to creatures with natural weapons, the elemental has two arms, so therefore is able to make two slam attacks using its natural weapons at it's highest attack bonus. If it had only one arm, it could only make one slam attack per round unless its base attack bonus was +6 or higher.
If the creature has more than one type of natural weapon (for example, 2 claws and a bite), it still only uses one as its primary weapon, but can use all three with a full-attack action. Secondary weapons are made at a -5 penalty and only receive one-half the creature's Strength modifier to damage unless noted otherwise.
Bar Gamer
03-14-05, 09:17 PM Hello all, forum noob here. I have a question about the Full-round attack, but applied to having a high enough BAB, that you get multiple attacks per round. Say that you have my character, a lvl 20 Troll Barbarian. He does indeed have 2 Claws and a bite, natural weapons all. Since the Monster Manual claims that I get two claw attacks, what then, would his BAB look like?

Here's what I have for my Troll's BAB right now. I'm pretty sure it's wrong. Take note, that I have my claws enchanted with Speed, as well as enchanted up to +3, that I already applied the -1 penalty for being Large, and that I took the Multi-Attack feat. (If the issue comes up that my claws cannot be enchanted, due to a Magic Item rule, let us just say that I'm wearing special metal gauntlets. Which is the actual case.)

Spd..........................Bite
+27/+27/+25/+23/+21/+14

Also, a question about Rend, and multiple attacks. Does Rend work if any two claw attacks hit a single enemy, or must they be consecutive? Also, do I apply enchantment damage? Thus, if my Str was a 34 (+12 mod), and I had my claws enchanted to +3, would my Rend do 2d6+18(No bonus), 2d6+21(single claw bonus), or 2d6+24(two claws bonus)? I'm betting on 'no bonus,' as the enchantment bonus to damage has already been applied during my normal attacks. Thanks in advance!
strenoth
03-14-05, 11:20 PM no no.. multiple attacks form high BaB ONLY applies to made weapons. When you use natural weapons, you only get 1 attack for each natural weapon.

SO, yoru attacks are claw-claw-bite, +speed bonus to claw, so claw-claw-claw-bite

Given total attack bonus 27 for melee w/ claws, ignoring special modifiers liek speed

+27/+27/+22

Except you have muli-attack, this changes to

+27/+27/+25

But you have a speed effect, so +27/+27/+27/+25

and remember, your bite damage only gets 1/2 your strength mod bonus to damage

Now, regarding rend & claws: by the written rules, any two claws work, because the rules did not take into account having more attacks than you have claws. ANd it's simpler that way too. More picky people might make you declare which attack(s) are right-claw, and which left. one left claw and one rigth claw attack must hit in order to rend.(the Rend ability is grabbing some one with both claws and literally trying to rip them apart.)

Regarding your gauntlents: the existing items that would do the same thing are A) amulet of natural weapons i beleive it's called, costs 3x the amount a magical weapon does, but effects ALL natural/unarmed attacks (this one is int he DMG), B) a pair of bracers that cost 2x normal magical weapon cost but only effect attacks made by hands/front claws, and C) a necklace in Savage Species that costs a variable amount based on number of natural weapons it effects. If you want it to effect only 1 claw, costs same as a normal magical weapon. both claws would cost 2x, both claws and yoru bite costs 3x (at which point you might as well be using the amulent)

so have your GM use those for guidelines.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
drift150 03-13-05, 02:23 PM	Me and my DM ar having a discussion over something that appears in the monster manual. If you look at, for example, any elemental, you'll see in the table that the single attack and full attack are diffferent. Attack: Slam +20 (2d6+10) Full Attack: 2 Slams + 20 (2d6+10) As you can see, the full attack says 2 slams. What is it supposed to mean? I think that, since it says two slams, one should use two slams (2 attacks with a +20 bonus to attack roll, each one dealing 2d6+10 damage), while the DM thinks it's only 1 attack, which wouldn't make sense (in my opinion). Can anyone help us sort this out? thanks a lot in advance.
d_nychus 03-13-05, 02:27 PM	2 slams, two attacks.
Morwen 03-13-05, 02:53 PM	It's just like for any old Monk. If he moves before or after the attack, he can only use his fist once. Otherwise, he can use his fists twice (or more, depending on BAB). He'll still have to roll to hit for both :)
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-13-05, 06:14 PM	You're right. Multiple attacks are always listed with what one attack does. Elementals have two "arms". An elemental makes an attack as listed with one arm, and then another attack as listed with the other.
Antioch 03-14-05, 04:51 AM	The first line of any monster entry details its primary attack method (in the elemental's case, a slam attack, which is essentially a punch). Any creature with more than one natural weapon is capable of leveling multiple attacks using a full-attack action, regardless as to whether it has the requisite attack bonus that say, a human needs to make more than one sword attack per round with a sword (because humans have no natural weapons like a bite, claws, stinger, etc). Sticking strictly to creatures with natural weapons, the elemental has two arms, so therefore is able to make two slam attacks using its natural weapons at it's highest attack bonus. If it had only one arm, it could only make one slam attack per round unless its base attack bonus was +6 or higher. If the creature has more than one type of natural weapon (for example, 2 claws and a bite), it still only uses one as its primary weapon, but can use all three with a full-attack action. Secondary weapons are made at a -5 penalty and only receive one-half the creature's Strength modifier to damage unless noted otherwise.
Bar Gamer 03-14-05, 09:17 PM	Hello all, forum noob here. I have a question about the Full-round attack, but applied to having a high enough BAB, that you get multiple attacks per round. Say that you have my character, a lvl 20 Troll Barbarian. He does indeed have 2 Claws and a bite, natural weapons all. Since the Monster Manual claims that I get two claw attacks, what then, would his BAB look like? Here's what I have for my Troll's BAB right now. I'm pretty sure it's wrong. Take note, that I have my claws enchanted with Speed, as well as enchanted up to +3, that I already applied the -1 penalty for being Large, and that I took the Multi-Attack feat. (If the issue comes up that my claws cannot be enchanted, due to a Magic Item rule, let us just say that I'm wearing special metal gauntlets. Which is the actual case.) Spd..........................Bite +27/+27/+25/+23/+21/+14 Also, a question about Rend, and multiple attacks. Does Rend work if any two claw attacks hit a single enemy, or must they be consecutive? Also, do I apply enchantment damage? Thus, if my Str was a 34 (+12 mod), and I had my claws enchanted to +3, would my Rend do 2d6+18(No bonus), 2d6+21(single claw bonus), or 2d6+24(two claws bonus)? I'm betting on 'no bonus,' as the enchantment bonus to damage has already been applied during my normal attacks. Thanks in advance!
strenoth 03-14-05, 11:20 PM	no no.. multiple attacks form high BaB ONLY applies to made weapons. When you use natural weapons, you only get 1 attack for each natural weapon. SO, yoru attacks are claw-claw-bite, +speed bonus to claw, so claw-claw-claw-bite Given total attack bonus 27 for melee w/ claws, ignoring special modifiers liek speed +27/+27/+22 Except you have muli-attack, this changes to +27/+27/+25 But you have a speed effect, so +27/+27/+27/+25 and remember, your bite damage only gets 1/2 your strength mod bonus to damage Now, regarding rend & claws: by the written rules, any two claws work, because the rules did not take into account having more attacks than you have claws. ANd it's simpler that way too. More picky people might make you declare which attack(s) are right-claw, and which left. one left claw and one rigth claw attack must hit in order to rend.(the Rend ability is grabbing some one with both claws and literally trying to rip them apart.) Regarding your gauntlents: the existing items that would do the same thing are A) amulet of natural weapons i beleive it's called, costs 3x the amount a magical weapon does, but effects ALL natural/unarmed attacks (this one is int he DMG), B) a pair of bracers that cost 2x normal magical weapon cost but only effect attacks made by hands/front claws, and C) a necklace in Savage Species that costs a variable amount based on number of natural weapons it effects. If you want it to effect only 1 claw, costs same as a normal magical weapon. both claws would cost 2x, both claws and yoru bite costs 3x (at which point you might as well be using the amulent) so have your GM use those for guidelines.