Awakened Spider CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Awakened Spider CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
olshanski_home
08-15-05, 03:43 PM Let me start by saying that I am aware that the awaken spell does not work on vermin.

I am planning an encounter with a CR5 huge spider.
I want the spider to be intelligent.
I don't want to use an Aranea or any monster that is not in the SRD.

The way I see it, giving the spider the extra intelligence and 2 HD is probably worth a bump of CR 2. 1/2 of a CR for the 2 hit dice, 1/2 CR for the fact that it might use tactics, and 1 full CR for the fact that it gets about 4 feats.

Any thoughts?
Sarlax
08-15-05, 10:46 PM I don't think +2 HD warrants a +2 CR increase by itself. The effects are: +1 all saves, +1 attacks, +11 HP, and +1 to poison save DCs. For a party of 5th to 8th level characters, this doesn't represent a significant increase in difficulty. The spider might last for a single extra round.

The intelligence is different. I don't think it will greatly change the spider's tactics, though. Monstrous Spiders are by instinct good killers. Although they aren't smart, they should instinctively fight well - they don't disarm, but they naturally climb walls, lay web traps, and attempt to poison everyone in succession. More intelligence should add a slight improvement to the spider's tactics, but since spiders don't have manipulators, I don't think they can do much more with a big brain then they can without.

Together, I'd give the HD and Intelligence a +1 CR effect. I don't think they're very strong.

Of course, this is all before the skills and feats you pick. If you give the spider Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack, you've probably made it much tougher - this thing can charge by, poison, and climb right up the walls and hang out for a minute while the poison does its work.

Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Improved Disarm can also make the spider a lot tougher.

Or you could go with Spit Venom (Serpent Kingdoms), Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot so that it can spit its poison as a touch attack. Throw in Light Armor Proficiency and give it a chain shirt.

The skills complicate things further. Where does it gets its ranks? Move Silenty, Tumble, and Swim can also greatly distort the spider's CR.

Anyway, I think we'd need to know its precise feat and skill selection before saying what its CR is.
obrysii
08-15-05, 11:23 PM Actually, Awaken does work on vermin, if you have the Child of Winter feat :) .

Um. I'd say CR +1 if it has high mental scores and actually uses those to it's advantage. And/or if it has spell-casting classes. Yikes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
olshanski_home 08-15-05, 03:43 PM	Let me start by saying that I am aware that the awaken spell does not work on vermin. I am planning an encounter with a CR5 huge spider. I want the spider to be intelligent. I don't want to use an Aranea or any monster that is not in the SRD. The way I see it, giving the spider the extra intelligence and 2 HD is probably worth a bump of CR 2. 1/2 of a CR for the 2 hit dice, 1/2 CR for the fact that it might use tactics, and 1 full CR for the fact that it gets about 4 feats. Any thoughts?
Sarlax 08-15-05, 10:46 PM	I don't think +2 HD warrants a +2 CR increase by itself. The effects are: +1 all saves, +1 attacks, +11 HP, and +1 to poison save DCs. For a party of 5th to 8th level characters, this doesn't represent a significant increase in difficulty. The spider might last for a single extra round. The intelligence is different. I don't think it will greatly change the spider's tactics, though. Monstrous Spiders are by instinct good killers. Although they aren't smart, they should instinctively fight well - they don't disarm, but they naturally climb walls, lay web traps, and attempt to poison everyone in succession. More intelligence should add a slight improvement to the spider's tactics, but since spiders don't have manipulators, I don't think they can do much more with a big brain then they can without. Together, I'd give the HD and Intelligence a +1 CR effect. I don't think they're very strong. Of course, this is all before the skills and feats you pick. If you give the spider Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack, you've probably made it much tougher - this thing can charge by, poison, and climb right up the walls and hang out for a minute while the poison does its work. Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Improved Disarm can also make the spider a lot tougher. Or you could go with Spit Venom (Serpent Kingdoms), Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot so that it can spit its poison as a touch attack. Throw in Light Armor Proficiency and give it a chain shirt. The skills complicate things further. Where does it gets its ranks? Move Silenty, Tumble, and Swim can also greatly distort the spider's CR. Anyway, I think we'd need to know its precise feat and skill selection before saying what its CR is.
obrysii 08-15-05, 11:23 PM	Actually, Awaken does work on vermin, if you have the Child of Winter feat :) . Um. I'd say CR +1 if it has high mental scores and actually uses those to it's advantage. And/or if it has spell-casting classes. Yikes.