Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragonbait 07-02-03, 06:50 PM	I don't know if this one will start up any debated but.. I've noticed a lot of people on the MBs listing Azers as dwarves. Now, I know that they may look like a dwarf, but are they really dwarves? I don't remember seeing it mentioned that they are a dwarven sub-race anywhere in either their 2e or 3e description. But people still insist on grouping them with dwarves. If that is the case, then are Eladrin elves? I dont have MM with me, so I might be bringing up the wrong name, but I'm referring to the CG elven-looking celestials. Since azers look like dwarves, and therefore are grouped with them by a lot of people, then eladrins are elves. And therefore titans, who look like giant huamns, are just an oversized human subrace. I could go on... I could be totally mistaken, and it might say right in the description that Azers ARE dwarves, but I don't ever remember seeing that. Because of that, it bugs me to no end when people bring up the Azer as an example of a dwarven race. I see it a lot when people are comparing subraces, especially when compared to other demihuman subraces (usually the elves).
cwslyclgh 07-02-03, 07:08 PM	hte first line of the mosnter manual discription says: Azers are dwarves from the Elemental Plane of Fire however it is not propper to bring them up in a discuusiion of subraces, as they are not a dwarven subrace, they are a whole seperat type of dwarf (thier type is oustider (fire, law), not humaniod (dwarf) for instance, and they don't speak dwarvish, thier listed languages are ignan and common).
Dragonbait 07-02-03, 07:11 PM	Well, that showed me. See what happens when you try to reference material that you dont have on hand. The very first line. no less.. :blush: Thanks for pointing that out, cwslyclgh.
Brian.C 07-02-03, 08:57 PM	I'd wager they are related to true dwarves at the very least; after all, dwarves use fire in their work all the time. Maybe they were once half-elementals or planetouched that were half-dwarf, who became so populous that they became a race of their own. - Brian
Gez 07-03-03, 01:57 PM	Eladrins are chaotic celestials that looks like elves, but they are not planar elves, but celestials (although most of elves could perfectly become eventually eladrins after their death, if you use the "default" cosmology). Azers are not celestials (or fiends), but an outsider race. Outsiders are somewhat divided into two groups, those that are the embodiment of their planes (celestials, fiends, formians, slaadi), and those that just happen to live in the planes (like genies, githzerai). The latter may become non-outsider with the (extraplanar) subtype, like varrangoin are in the Fiend Folio. Azers are in this extraplanar categorie.
Daeri Maer'jiir 07-03-03, 04:47 PM	English-Asian Shield dwarf-Gold dwarf Human- Flaming chimpanzee Dwarf-Azer
cwslyclgh 07-03-03, 08:33 PM	personly I would have used (flaming neandertal) in the example....