Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kilridge 01-31-05, 01:47 PM	Given that the ruling on the latest FAQ states that Acid attacks on objects are subject to hardnes, does a Babau's Corrosive Goo ability now have to contend with hardness since it specifies that this is an acid ability? Since the entry was written in the SRD and Monster Manual when acid attacks ignored hardness, is the portion of the statement below in bold now erroneous when it says "Any weapon that touches it takes 1d8 points of acid damage from the corrosive goo, and the weapon’s hardness does not reduce this damage"? I just had a weapon eaten by this ability so it would be nice to know for certain if repairing it just cost me an extra 9k to fix for nothing.
eggplantm 01-31-05, 02:06 PM	Acid attacks on objects are normally subject to reduction from hardness. However, since it specifically says so, the babau's acid bypasses hardness. It's just a special case for a specific type of acid.
Kilridge 01-31-05, 02:47 PM	Acid attacks on objects are normally subject to reduction from hardness. They are according the the FAQ released Friday but here is what it says in the SRD: Energy Attacks: Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness. So there is a definite contradiction between the two sources. Since the text for the Babau was written well before Friday I want to know if that damage is now subject to hardness.
cwslyclgh 01-31-05, 05:01 PM	lets try a large quote from the SRD: Hardness: Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points). Hit Points: An object’s hit point total depends on what it is made of and how big it is (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points). When an object’s hit points reach 0, it’s ruined. Very large objects have separate hit point totals for different sections. Energy Attacks: Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness. No where does it say that you do not apply the hardness, only that you do not reduce the damage (ie you do not cut in half or quarter before applying it). The Hardness section makes it clear that hardness applies against any attack so to apply damage "normaly" to it you roll the damage and subtract the hardness. many people have read this wrong in the past, a mistake compounded by the FAQ until the most recent release... in fact the change to the FAQ makes it come in line with the rules as written where as it used to be a contradiction.
Kilridge 02-01-05, 02:44 PM	Bleh! It is the lack of reference to hardness in regard to acid and sonic attacks in that statement that causes the confusion I suppose. It is specifically stated that hardness applies to fire, electricity and cold in the next two sentences. Brilliant editing once again! Thanks for the clarification. Babau's suck btw. I think I would rather have my weapon sundered. :(
cwslyclgh 02-01-05, 02:53 PM	It is the lack of reference to hardness in regard to acid and sonic attacks in that statement that causes the confusion I suppose. It is specifically stated that hardness applies to fire, electricity and cold in the next two sentences. I believe that they did it the way that they did so that people would know the order of effect... ie so that we wouldn't be sitting here on the boards arguing whether you cut the fire damage in half and then apply hardness or apply hardness and then cut the remaining fire damage in half. since acid and sonic damage are not reduced they didn't feel the need to mention the hardness factor because there is only one possible order of operation.
gnimish 02-01-05, 02:56 PM	our party just fought a babau last session. The halfling ranger (dual weapon wielder) was REALLY hating life, going through 4 separate weapons by the end of the battle. His light weapons got no save, so every time he hit he lost a weapon. The only one who had a weapon survive was a dwarf fighter wielding a +1 dwarvencraft heavy maul. The extra bonus to save and hp from dwarvencraft really saved his bacon on that one! (FYI - dwarvencraft gear is described in Races of Stone) Unfortunately, it still took him almost 300 gp in raw materials to fix it! (he is working towards the Battlesmith PrC). I was REALLY glad to be the archer in that scene.
Kilridge 02-02-05, 01:24 PM	The thing that sucked about the way the combat against the babau went for me was that my cleric was enlarged weilding his maul. The enlargement of the maul gave it more hit points so it wasn't destroyed until after it shrank back to normal size. Blech! At least I got a critical strike on it and finished it on that blow. Small consolation but consolation nonetheless.
HomebrewedMonster 02-02-05, 03:34 PM	Our group is currently in a demon-hunting campaign, so this has come up before. We have made a house rule, the armor resistance enchantments in the DMG can be applied to your weapons. It costs half the normal amount but does not grant the resistance to you, only your weapon. So giving your sword acid 5 would cost you 9,000, but you would not gain anything from the enchantment.