bahamut and tiamat [Archive] - Wizards Community

bahamut and tiamat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BlackMyridon
11-19-06, 12:48 AM i need to know what books bahamut and tiamat stats are in i can't remeber i think ive seen them somewhere and its really annoying the hell out of me can someone tell me what book and what page or even just post the stats
leather_book_wizard
11-19-06, 12:54 AM Look on the SRD.
BlackMyridon
11-19-06, 12:57 AM SRD? sorry if its a stupid question but i have no diea what that stands for
Freefall
11-19-06, 01:02 AM The SRD stands for System Reference Document; it's basically a streamlined, bare-bones free on-line version of the D&D rules and most monsters.

I really doubt Bahamut or Tiamat are in it though. In published books you can find their stats in Deities and Demigods, and also much weaker stats in Manual of the Planes (about CR 25 each, I think).
BlackMyridon
11-19-06, 01:14 AM thanks alot tho that seems wierd i thought they where WAYYYY weaker in a book i saw them in but thanks i think i know someone who has dietes and demigods but not manuel of planes
KurenaiYami
11-19-06, 03:28 AM thanks alot tho that seems wierd i thought they where WAYYYY weaker in a book i saw them in but thanks i think i know someone who has dietes and demigods but not manuel of planes

Hope they weren't too weak, seeing as they are both gods, and children of Io, the Ninefold Dragon.
Freefall
11-19-06, 04:27 AM Hope they weren't too weak, seeing as they are both gods, and children of Io, the Ninefold Dragon.

Making a cursory comparison between the CR 25 MotP Bahamut and the CR 27 Great Wyrm Gold Dragon from the MM, I would say Bahamut has a definitive edge. So if redone for 3.0, that particular version would be maybe CR 29 (two GW golds would be CR 29, right? I think two of them would be a rough fight for him. Actually, two might very well be too much for him, so maybe just CR 28). Tiamat should be comparable.

The Deities & Demigods versions are much stronger than this (although a huge chunk of that power, especially for Bahamut, comes from the Alter Reality SDA) and have excellent chances of defeating even Great Wyrm Force or Prismatic dragons.

I think Tiamat (and maybe Bahamut) have also had "aspects" written up for them. If they have, then I think they would be in the Miniatures Handbook, and they are probably only around CR 13-15.

But if you want the god-level, CR 60+ versions, go with Deities & Demigods.
Sepsis
11-22-06, 12:05 AM There is the "Spawn of Tiamat" that was recently done in Monster Manual IV. Although I haven't seen a write up for Bahamut since Deities and Demigods, and the bad versions from Manual of the Planes.
Barron
11-22-06, 09:58 AM Maybe hewas thinking of the aspects of Tiamat and Bahamut, which appeared in the miniatures handbook. I believe they were placed arround CR 10-13
TienFong
11-22-06, 10:39 AM Dieties and Demigods, i believe they're in there.. but as 3rd ed..
ank
11-24-06, 11:38 PM The aspect of Tiamut and Bahamut both appeared in the recent publication of dragon magic. The aspect of Bahamut weighs in at a CR 12 (a 12D10 cone of cold I think, and massive diplomacy/sense motive/etc scores) and the aspect of Tiamat at CR 13 (five bites +21, 12D10 damage from each head, one at a time). As for the actual gods themselves, I cannot believe that they could be considered at so weak of a CR. If they are the creators of all of dragonkind they should be able to stand up easily to their bretherin. If tiamat could be defeated by a simple two of her spawn, she would easily be dead by now. Not to push their challenge ratings out of the ballpark, but given that their mere will can create challenge rating 12 and 13 creatures. And also given that they (mostly tiamat in this case) can lead hordes of dragons together in an army, you would think they would have to be powerful.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BlackMyridon 11-19-06, 12:48 AM	i need to know what books bahamut and tiamat stats are in i can't remeber i think ive seen them somewhere and its really annoying the hell out of me can someone tell me what book and what page or even just post the stats
leather_book_wizard 11-19-06, 12:54 AM	Look on the SRD.
BlackMyridon 11-19-06, 12:57 AM	SRD? sorry if its a stupid question but i have no diea what that stands for
Freefall 11-19-06, 01:02 AM	The SRD stands for System Reference Document; it's basically a streamlined, bare-bones free on-line version of the D&D rules and most monsters. I really doubt Bahamut or Tiamat are in it though. In published books you can find their stats in Deities and Demigods, and also much weaker stats in Manual of the Planes (about CR 25 each, I think).
BlackMyridon 11-19-06, 01:14 AM	thanks alot tho that seems wierd i thought they where WAYYYY weaker in a book i saw them in but thanks i think i know someone who has dietes and demigods but not manuel of planes
KurenaiYami 11-19-06, 03:28 AM	thanks alot tho that seems wierd i thought they where WAYYYY weaker in a book i saw them in but thanks i think i know someone who has dietes and demigods but not manuel of planes Hope they weren't too weak, seeing as they are both gods, and children of Io, the Ninefold Dragon.
Freefall 11-19-06, 04:27 AM	Hope they weren't too weak, seeing as they are both gods, and children of Io, the Ninefold Dragon. Making a cursory comparison between the CR 25 MotP Bahamut and the CR 27 Great Wyrm Gold Dragon from the MM, I would say Bahamut has a definitive edge. So if redone for 3.0, that particular version would be maybe CR 29 (two GW golds would be CR 29, right? I think two of them would be a rough fight for him. Actually, two might very well be too much for him, so maybe just CR 28). Tiamat should be comparable. The Deities & Demigods versions are much stronger than this (although a huge chunk of that power, especially for Bahamut, comes from the Alter Reality SDA) and have excellent chances of defeating even Great Wyrm Force or Prismatic dragons. I think Tiamat (and maybe Bahamut) have also had "aspects" written up for them. If they have, then I think they would be in the Miniatures Handbook, and they are probably only around CR 13-15. But if you want the god-level, CR 60+ versions, go with Deities & Demigods.
Sepsis 11-22-06, 12:05 AM	There is the "Spawn of Tiamat" that was recently done in Monster Manual IV. Although I haven't seen a write up for Bahamut since Deities and Demigods, and the bad versions from Manual of the Planes.
Barron 11-22-06, 09:58 AM	Maybe hewas thinking of the aspects of Tiamat and Bahamut, which appeared in the miniatures handbook. I believe they were placed arround CR 10-13
TienFong 11-22-06, 10:39 AM	Dieties and Demigods, i believe they're in there.. but as 3rd ed..
ank 11-24-06, 11:38 PM	The aspect of Tiamut and Bahamut both appeared in the recent publication of dragon magic. The aspect of Bahamut weighs in at a CR 12 (a 12D10 cone of cold I think, and massive diplomacy/sense motive/etc scores) and the aspect of Tiamat at CR 13 (five bites +21, 12D10 damage from each head, one at a time). As for the actual gods themselves, I cannot believe that they could be considered at so weak of a CR. If they are the creators of all of dragonkind they should be able to stand up easily to their bretherin. If tiamat could be defeated by a simple two of her spawn, she would easily be dead by now. Not to push their challenge ratings out of the ballpark, but given that their mere will can create challenge rating 12 and 13 creatures. And also given that they (mostly tiamat in this case) can lead hordes of dragons together in an army, you would think they would have to be powerful.