Balor Strength Incosistency in MM3.5? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Balor Strength Incosistency in MM3.5? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Talraen
03-20-05, 10:38 PM Hopefully this hasn't been posted before or anything, but the search feature is currently down and a manual search for "balor" on each of the 16 pages of this forum didn't turn up anything, so what the heck...

Anyway, I was statting out some custom balors today, and I noticed that their Strength score is not consistent between their attack bonus and damage listings. I checked the FAQ and errata and couldn't find anything on the subject, although I do have a first-printing Monster Manual, so who knows.

Anyway, a Balor's Strength is listed as 35, for a +12 bonus. Their attack bonus for a single attack with a +1 vorpal longsword, which they have weapon focus in, is correctly listed as +33 (+20 base attack bonus, +12 Strength bonus, -1 size penalty, +1 enhancement bonus, +1 weapon focus = +33). However, the damage with the attack is listed as 2d6+8, which implies a Strength modifier of +7 (accounting for the +1 enhancement bonus). Indeed, the damage listing for their off-hand +1 flaming whip is 1d4+4, which implies a halved strength bonus of +3.

I'm figuring that I'm either missing something completely, or the damage for a Balor's weapons should be notched up to match the listed Strength score, simply because revising the Balor to have 24 or 25 Strength (which would be consistent with the damage) makes it rather pathetic for a CR 20 creature's attacks. Nonetheless, I am interested to know what the "official" answer is on this one.
Count Arioch the 28th
03-20-05, 10:47 PM I just checked the Monster Manual errata, and it says nothing about the balor.

As far as official decisions, I don't know of any, because it would be in the errata.
Freefall
03-20-05, 11:40 PM This is actually a known problem. I don't know why it hasn't been addressed in the errata. Anyway, the damage is a holdover from 3.0, when Balors had 24 strength. For some reason they forgot to upgrade his damage output. That's all. It should be higher.
Khalarak Ironclaw
03-21-05, 10:30 AM And the lower damage bonus from the whip is accounting for the fact that you get half your strength mod to off-hand attacks.
GrandMarquis
03-21-05, 04:33 PM While we're on it, is their reach with the whip correct? It says 20 ft, which would be right for a normal reach weapon, but the whip is 15 ft reach for medium, wheras normal reach weapons are 10.
Evil Wizard
03-22-05, 11:27 AM Sounds like a typo that nobody noticed until now. Must not be that many balor fans around. >_> Anyway, they can't errata something they didn't know about, so might want to pass that along to them.
The Abominable Darkling
03-22-05, 12:14 PM I passed this along to them shortly after the book was published. They didn't deign to include it in the errata.
IceFractal
03-22-05, 09:48 PM I presume the whip should have 30' reach.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Talraen 03-20-05, 10:38 PM	Hopefully this hasn't been posted before or anything, but the search feature is currently down and a manual search for "balor" on each of the 16 pages of this forum didn't turn up anything, so what the heck... Anyway, I was statting out some custom balors today, and I noticed that their Strength score is not consistent between their attack bonus and damage listings. I checked the FAQ and errata and couldn't find anything on the subject, although I do have a first-printing Monster Manual, so who knows. Anyway, a Balor's Strength is listed as 35, for a +12 bonus. Their attack bonus for a single attack with a +1 vorpal longsword, which they have weapon focus in, is correctly listed as +33 (+20 base attack bonus, +12 Strength bonus, -1 size penalty, +1 enhancement bonus, +1 weapon focus = +33). However, the damage with the attack is listed as 2d6+8, which implies a Strength modifier of +7 (accounting for the +1 enhancement bonus). Indeed, the damage listing for their off-hand +1 flaming whip is 1d4+4, which implies a halved strength bonus of +3. I'm figuring that I'm either missing something completely, or the damage for a Balor's weapons should be notched up to match the listed Strength score, simply because revising the Balor to have 24 or 25 Strength (which would be consistent with the damage) makes it rather pathetic for a CR 20 creature's attacks. Nonetheless, I am interested to know what the "official" answer is on this one.
Count Arioch the 28th 03-20-05, 10:47 PM	I just checked the Monster Manual errata, and it says nothing about the balor. As far as official decisions, I don't know of any, because it would be in the errata.
Freefall 03-20-05, 11:40 PM	This is actually a known problem. I don't know why it hasn't been addressed in the errata. Anyway, the damage is a holdover from 3.0, when Balors had 24 strength. For some reason they forgot to upgrade his damage output. That's all. It should be higher.
Khalarak Ironclaw 03-21-05, 10:30 AM	And the lower damage bonus from the whip is accounting for the fact that you get half your strength mod to off-hand attacks.
GrandMarquis 03-21-05, 04:33 PM	While we're on it, is their reach with the whip correct? It says 20 ft, which would be right for a normal reach weapon, but the whip is 15 ft reach for medium, wheras normal reach weapons are 10.
Evil Wizard 03-22-05, 11:27 AM	Sounds like a typo that nobody noticed until now. Must not be that many balor fans around. >_> Anyway, they can't errata something they didn't know about, so might want to pass that along to them.
The Abominable Darkling 03-22-05, 12:14 PM	I passed this along to them shortly after the book was published. They didn't deign to include it in the errata.
IceFractal 03-22-05, 09:48 PM	I presume the whip should have 30' reach.