Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sledgerosaur 12-19-06, 02:52 PM	After reading the "weak vorpral balor" topic I suddenly realised. could a balor ACTUALLY beat a pit feind? :duel: who would win? A balor can summon another balor BUT the pit feind can summon two horned devils. Imo the pit feind would win (but it probaly depends on the balor death Xplosion) Who would win in your opinion? I know i could just make them fight but 1: I don't have my mm on me (and my stupid computer wont display srd properly) 2: I would not know how both parties would react confronted with thier foe (apart from trying to kill eachover) thanks for reading
Karak_Nechot 12-19-06, 04:15 PM	Basically, there are two things that the balor can do that might affect the pit fiend. A: Implosion, and hope it overcomes the pit fiend's SR and the pit fiend rolls a 7 or less. B: Chop off the pit fiend's head with the vorpal effect. Because of regeneration, this effect is debateable. Some argue that a pit fiend can live without its head, while others say it can't because it doesn't say that it can. Either way, the odds are definately more in the favor of the pit fiend, by an unfair amount. A balor could potentially knock a pit fiend unconcious, but could not finish it without some unusual circumstances (i.e. carrying a silvered holy avenger, or drowning the pit fiend, etc.) Even this is unlikely, as the pit fiend does much more damage than the balor, and the balor has no regeneration effect.
TheCrawlingSpleen 12-19-06, 08:56 PM	It seems to me that the Balor probably wouldn't fight the Pit Fiend in the first place, instead acting as commander, using dretches as sword fodder while vrocks start a dance of ruin. While a Balor is similar to a Pit Fiend, it is not necessarily meant to face off against one.
IdleAltruism 12-19-06, 09:14 PM	It looks like the balor wins. Balors are immune to fire and thats the majority of the pit fiends abilities. They almost do the same melee damage and if the balor gets lucky the pit fiend goes down.
Keterys 12-19-06, 09:49 PM	Once a Pit Fiend is unconscious, the Balor has effectively won... much like how most parties can defeat a Troll, even without having fire abilities of their own. Worst case scenario, the Balor can teleport to somewhere where there is a weapon that beats the regeneration, taking the head of the Pit Fiend with it
Slagger the Chuul 12-19-06, 10:37 PM	They almost do the same melee damage and if the balor gets lucky the pit fiend goes down. There's Armour Class and attack bonuses to consider for melee damage. Since the pit fiend is using natural attacks, it doesn't need a natural 20 to hit with most of them (it hits more often than not with every melee attack; a roll of 5 for primary attacks or 7 for secondary), and it also has a better AC so that the balor's best attacks only hit about half the time. The demon doesn't even have fast healing.
Morrowner 12-20-06, 08:46 AM	Can somebody please, please run this boxing match and put it on ppv? Its been asked for 6 straight years and we want answers!
Sledgerosaur 12-20-06, 08:57 AM	Just thinking.... technically, if a balor summons another balor, there is a chance that the summoned balor has NOT used HIS summoning ability yet. so technically, there is a possiblility that the match could be 5 balors vs 2 horned demons and a pit feind. :eek: Am i just being stupid, or is that possible?
Morwen 12-20-06, 09:01 AM	Isn't there some rule saying that summoned monsters can't use summoning abilities?
Sledgerosaur 12-20-06, 09:01 AM	so is that balor that has just been summond not allowed to use his summoning ability? darn, I was hoping for a massive pile of balors bundeling the pit feind...
Slagger the Chuul 12-20-06, 10:17 AM	Isn't there some rule saying that summoned monsters can't use summoning abilities? That's correct. The standard for the summon ability that both demons and devils use prevents the summoned creature from using its own summoning ability (if any) for 1 hour. Since the standard duration of such summonings is also 1 hour, the summoned demon would get back its own summoning ability just after it returned. Of course, both the balor and the pit fiend can use greater dispel magic at will, so the summonings won't last long if either side finds them a problem.
Morrowner 12-20-06, 11:42 AM	That's correct. The standard for the summon ability that both demons and devils use prevents the summoned creature from using its own summoning ability (if any) for 1 hour. Since the standard duration of such summonings is also 1 hour, the summoned demon would get back its own summoning ability just after it returned. Of course, both the balor and the pit fiend can use greater dispel magic at will, so the summonings won't last long if either side finds them a problem. Yeah, thats true. GDM makes the summoning much less of a problem. But they aren't necessarily free actions, either.
Keterys 12-20-06, 12:41 PM	And for the Balor, the summon is a real no brainer. Summon a balor as a standard action. Let it take a full round action (using a standard action to cast a spell and a quickened telekinesis, at the least) I think the Pit Fiend has the edge, but the Balor's not completely out of contention.