Bar-lgura Update for 3.5? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bar-lgura Update for 3.5? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CelestialBarbarian
01-11-05, 12:18 AM Has Wizards updated the bar-lgura demon, found in Book of Vile Darkness? If so, where can I find it? Thanks! :)
Ogre4Hire
01-11-05, 11:45 AM Well, they haven't been reprinted in a 3.5 book if that's what you're asking.

However, you can download the 3.5 update book from the D&D mainpage.

Barring that, you simply have to make sure that it's got the correct number of feats for its HD, its Energy Resistance is set to 10 (I think that they were doing this already by the time BoVD came out), and change its DR to DRX/Good (Or Cold Iron or Good).
CelestialBarbarian
01-11-05, 03:10 PM Well, they haven't been reprinted in a 3.5 book if that's what you're asking.

However, you can download the 3.5 update book from the D&D mainpage.

Barring that, you simply have to make sure that it's got the correct number of feats for its HD, its Energy Resistance is set to 10 (I think that they were doing this already by the time BoVD came out), and change its DR to DRX/Good (Or Cold Iron or Good).

I've looked in the 3.5 update booklet but didn't see the bar-lgura or anything from the Book of Vile Darkness there.

The energy resistance and DR present no problem, but if most cases 3.5 made demons more powerful (or lowered the CR for one if it didn't make it more powerful).
Dackad
01-11-05, 04:50 PM Right ahead of you.
You can find it here (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Bar-lgura.htm).
Gauduric
01-11-05, 05:02 PM what about devils?
CelestialBarbarian
01-11-05, 10:32 PM Right ahead of you.
You can find it here (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Bar-lgura.htm).

Thanks very much, Dackad! I'd done my own conversion and then decided to see if Wizards had done an official one. I converted in a similar way, with some differences:

1. I added two hit dice, since I noticed that in 3.5, generally speaking (not including the succubus), the more hit dice a demon had in 3.0 the more Wizards added in 3.5. Two seemed like a good addition to a 6-hit-die 3.0 demon.

2. I forgot that outsiders get 60' darkvision (which I've now added, thanks to you).

3. I raised Strength and Constitution by 2 more than you did, since I noticed again that in 3.5, generally speaking , the more hit dice a demon had in 3.0 the more Wizards added to Strength and Constitution in 3.5 (except again to the succbus, who got a large increase in Charisma). Four seemed like a good addition to a 6-hit-die 3.0 demon.

4. I kept the bar-lgura's Hide and Jump bonuses at +4 and +10, instead of raising the Hide bonus to +8, eliminating the Jump bonus, and providing a +8 Climb bonus.

5. I kept the bar-lgura's specific version of teleport without error, allowing it to teleport up to 200 pounds, including a pinned foe. I know that works a bit differently than the 3.5 teleport without error, but it has the same effect as allowing the bar-lgura to teleport with one pinned creature, essentially no more than average in weight for a medium-sized creature.

6. I replaced change self with its 3.5 counterpart, disguise self, rather than with the more powerful alter self.

7. I raised the caster level to keep it equal the number of hit dice.

8. I didn't have a weight for the bar-lgura, since I didn't see one in the Book of Vile Darkness, but 250 seems reasonable.

9. I kept the CR at 5.

10. I kept the SR at 16 instead of lowering it to 15.

11. Like you I added a third feat, but at least for the specific bar-lgura about to attack the party, I dumped Dodge and Mobility and gave them Greater Powerful Charge, Powerful Charge and Reckless Charge. The three new feats capitalize on their pounce ability, making them excellent shock troops.

Anyway, thanks again for your update! :)
Dackad
01-11-05, 11:28 PM Thanks very much, Dackad! I'd done my own conversion and then decided to see if Wizards had done an official one. I converted in a similar way, with some differences:
No problem. :)
Having someone else go over the differences between our revisions really gives me a different view of how to do certain updates. In fact, it makes me want to go back and fiddle with some things. :)

8. I didn't have a weight for the bar-lgura, since I didn't see one in the Book of Vile Darkness, but 250 seems reasonable.
Guesstimation. They could easily be heavier, I think.

10. I kept the SR at 16 instead of lowering it to 15.
Generally, in 3.5, demons have SR equal to their CR + 8. Hence the bar-lgura has a lower SR. Not that you have to follow this rule at all, but I just threw that out there.
CelestialBarbarian
01-12-05, 12:06 AM No problem. :)
Having someone else go over the differences between our revisions really gives me a different view of how to do certain updates. In fact, it makes me want to go back and fiddle with some things. :)

Guesstimation. They could easily be heavier, I think.

Generally, in 3.5, demons have SR equal to their CR + 8. Hence the bar-lgura has a lower SR. Not that you have to follow this rule at all, but I just threw that out there.

I'm glad that I could help. Your update certainly helped me! Oh, I forgot to mention that I gave the bar-lgura the three standard tanar'ri languages: Abyssal, Celestial and Draconic, although of course they can use telepathy. I also wanted to mention that I think the Combat Reflexes feat is a good choice for a demon with a 19 Dexterity. I keep waiting to surprise my parent with a monster that has Combat Reflexes. Actually I take that back. The party ran into a pyrohydra and it had Combat Reflexes. The party's "evil paladin" (poorly-played paladin who wanted to turn an NPC over to the drow!) got nailed (dying) by the hydra because of Combat Reflexes.

In case you're interested, the drow have hired these bar-lgura (4) and 5 glabrezu with lesser planar ally and planar ally spells, and some bugbear warriors, to go after the party. The party has an NPC named Elvira, a renegade good-aligned drow sorceress who killed one of her sisters to stop her from beating a deep gnome slave to death and then fled to the surface where she met and joined the party. One of her other sisters, Morgana, and one brother, Elric, showed up trying to take her back for public torture and death. Morgana, a typical drow priestess of Lolth, politely tried to buy Elvira from the party for 4,000 platininum coins. (That's when the evil paladin talked about handing her over.) When the party refused she left--and then returned with an invisible female drow asssassin, a bunch of Death Spears (male drow fighters mounted on monstrous spiders wielding lesser death spears from the Magic of Faerun book), two sharp-shooting male drow ranger/scouts (scout is one of my prestige classes) and a male blackguard/fighter, also mounted on a monstrous spider and wielding a greater death spear.

Morgana and Elric (a typical male drow wizard) used tons of spells from the Book of Vile Darkness, and one of the party members had blood running from his eyes as he rolled around on the ground in pain from his skin erupting all over. For a time it looked like the drow would kill everyone in the party, but someone managed to dispel the wrack on the cleric, who then spontaneously cast a curtain of light spell, while the party's wizard put up a wall of fire. The two spells gave the party just enough time to recover and turn the tide (along with some help from a half-celestial barbarian they'd once rescued who they could call once). After Elvira went invisible and flew out of the campsite, Morgana used a plane shift to take her protector (the blackguard) and herself to Plague-Mort, saying that this wasn't over. Elric, teleported himself and the (blinded) assassin to a yuan-ti city close enough to the surface to not have that weird underdark radiation, bowing to Elvira and telling her that round one went to her.

The party has been living in terror of the return of the drow. Morganna used her 4,000 platinum coins (and some gold she had) to hire the bugbears and demons, and has returned to the Material Plane. Elric has been scrying on the party, and plans to teleport in with the assassin and one of the ranger/scouts after Morganna has beat up the party. MuHAHA! :D
Seraph of Babel
01-12-05, 10:23 AM I did a simple v3.5 conversion (following the official v3.5 update style) for Book of Vile Darkness some time back over here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=190192) at the BOVD forum.
CelestialBarbarian
01-12-05, 02:43 PM I did a simple v3.5 conversion (following the official v3.5 update style) for Book of Vile Darkness some time back over here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=190192) at the BOVD forum.

Thanks!

Hey it occurred to me this morning that with 8 HD a bar-lgura wouldn't respond to a lesser planar ally spell, so I'm going to end up dropping it back down to its original 6 hit dice. Ah well, it probably had too many hit points at 84 anyway!
CelestialBarbarian
01-12-05, 03:07 PM Thanks!

Hey it occurred to me this morning that with 8 HD a bar-lgura wouldn't respond to a lesser planar ally spell, so I'm going to end up dropping it back down to its original 6 hit dice. Ah well, it probably had too many hit points at 84 anyway!

Gah! Going over the bar-lgura to change it back to 6 hit dice I see that I messed up some stuff. I raised the Constitution 6 points rather than the 4 I thought (and actually had 24 instead of 22 under the ability scores section, for an increase of 8!). I'm keeping the increase at 6, thus making the Con equal to the new Strength score of 22, and giving it 63 hit points.

I also forgot to mention that I increased the natural armor bonus by two to 10.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CelestialBarbarian 01-11-05, 12:18 AM	Has Wizards updated the bar-lgura demon, found in Book of Vile Darkness? If so, where can I find it? Thanks! :)
Ogre4Hire 01-11-05, 11:45 AM	Well, they haven't been reprinted in a 3.5 book if that's what you're asking. However, you can download the 3.5 update book from the D&D mainpage. Barring that, you simply have to make sure that it's got the correct number of feats for its HD, its Energy Resistance is set to 10 (I think that they were doing this already by the time BoVD came out), and change its DR to DRX/Good (Or Cold Iron or Good).
CelestialBarbarian 01-11-05, 03:10 PM	Well, they haven't been reprinted in a 3.5 book if that's what you're asking. However, you can download the 3.5 update book from the D&D mainpage. Barring that, you simply have to make sure that it's got the correct number of feats for its HD, its Energy Resistance is set to 10 (I think that they were doing this already by the time BoVD came out), and change its DR to DRX/Good (Or Cold Iron or Good). I've looked in the 3.5 update booklet but didn't see the bar-lgura or anything from the Book of Vile Darkness there. The energy resistance and DR present no problem, but if most cases 3.5 made demons more powerful (or lowered the CR for one if it didn't make it more powerful).
Dackad 01-11-05, 04:50 PM	Right ahead of you. You can find it here (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Bar-lgura.htm).
Gauduric 01-11-05, 05:02 PM	what about devils?
CelestialBarbarian 01-11-05, 10:32 PM	Right ahead of you. You can find it here (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Bar-lgura.htm). Thanks very much, Dackad! I'd done my own conversion and then decided to see if Wizards had done an official one. I converted in a similar way, with some differences: 1. I added two hit dice, since I noticed that in 3.5, generally speaking (not including the succubus), the more hit dice a demon had in 3.0 the more Wizards added in 3.5. Two seemed like a good addition to a 6-hit-die 3.0 demon. 2. I forgot that outsiders get 60' darkvision (which I've now added, thanks to you). 3. I raised Strength and Constitution by 2 more than you did, since I noticed again that in 3.5, generally speaking , the more hit dice a demon had in 3.0 the more Wizards added to Strength and Constitution in 3.5 (except again to the succbus, who got a large increase in Charisma). Four seemed like a good addition to a 6-hit-die 3.0 demon. 4. I kept the bar-lgura's Hide and Jump bonuses at +4 and +10, instead of raising the Hide bonus to +8, eliminating the Jump bonus, and providing a +8 Climb bonus. 5. I kept the bar-lgura's specific version of teleport without error, allowing it to teleport up to 200 pounds, including a pinned foe. I know that works a bit differently than the 3.5 teleport without error, but it has the same effect as allowing the bar-lgura to teleport with one pinned creature, essentially no more than average in weight for a medium-sized creature. 6. I replaced change self with its 3.5 counterpart, disguise self, rather than with the more powerful alter self. 7. I raised the caster level to keep it equal the number of hit dice. 8. I didn't have a weight for the bar-lgura, since I didn't see one in the Book of Vile Darkness, but 250 seems reasonable. 9. I kept the CR at 5. 10. I kept the SR at 16 instead of lowering it to 15. 11. Like you I added a third feat, but at least for the specific bar-lgura about to attack the party, I dumped Dodge and Mobility and gave them Greater Powerful Charge, Powerful Charge and Reckless Charge. The three new feats capitalize on their pounce ability, making them excellent shock troops. Anyway, thanks again for your update! :)
Dackad 01-11-05, 11:28 PM	Thanks very much, Dackad! I'd done my own conversion and then decided to see if Wizards had done an official one. I converted in a similar way, with some differences: No problem. :) Having someone else go over the differences between our revisions really gives me a different view of how to do certain updates. In fact, it makes me want to go back and fiddle with some things. :) 8. I didn't have a weight for the bar-lgura, since I didn't see one in the Book of Vile Darkness, but 250 seems reasonable. Guesstimation. They could easily be heavier, I think. 10. I kept the SR at 16 instead of lowering it to 15. Generally, in 3.5, demons have SR equal to their CR + 8. Hence the bar-lgura has a lower SR. Not that you have to follow this rule at all, but I just threw that out there.
CelestialBarbarian 01-12-05, 12:06 AM	No problem. :) Having someone else go over the differences between our revisions really gives me a different view of how to do certain updates. In fact, it makes me want to go back and fiddle with some things. :) Guesstimation. They could easily be heavier, I think. Generally, in 3.5, demons have SR equal to their CR + 8. Hence the bar-lgura has a lower SR. Not that you have to follow this rule at all, but I just threw that out there. I'm glad that I could help. Your update certainly helped me! Oh, I forgot to mention that I gave the bar-lgura the three standard tanar'ri languages: Abyssal, Celestial and Draconic, although of course they can use telepathy. I also wanted to mention that I think the Combat Reflexes feat is a good choice for a demon with a 19 Dexterity. I keep waiting to surprise my parent with a monster that has Combat Reflexes. Actually I take that back. The party ran into a pyrohydra and it had Combat Reflexes. The party's "evil paladin" (poorly-played paladin who wanted to turn an NPC over to the drow!) got nailed (dying) by the hydra because of Combat Reflexes. In case you're interested, the drow have hired these bar-lgura (4) and 5 glabrezu with lesser planar ally and planar ally spells, and some bugbear warriors, to go after the party. The party has an NPC named Elvira, a renegade good-aligned drow sorceress who killed one of her sisters to stop her from beating a deep gnome slave to death and then fled to the surface where she met and joined the party. One of her other sisters, Morgana, and one brother, Elric, showed up trying to take her back for public torture and death. Morgana, a typical drow priestess of Lolth, politely tried to buy Elvira from the party for 4,000 platininum coins. (That's when the evil paladin talked about handing her over.) When the party refused she left--and then returned with an invisible female drow asssassin, a bunch of Death Spears (male drow fighters mounted on monstrous spiders wielding lesser death spears from the Magic of Faerun book), two sharp-shooting male drow ranger/scouts (scout is one of my prestige classes) and a male blackguard/fighter, also mounted on a monstrous spider and wielding a greater death spear. Morgana and Elric (a typical male drow wizard) used tons of spells from the Book of Vile Darkness, and one of the party members had blood running from his eyes as he rolled around on the ground in pain from his skin erupting all over. For a time it looked like the drow would kill everyone in the party, but someone managed to dispel the wrack on the cleric, who then spontaneously cast a curtain of light spell, while the party's wizard put up a wall of fire. The two spells gave the party just enough time to recover and turn the tide (along with some help from a half-celestial barbarian they'd once rescued who they could call once). After Elvira went invisible and flew out of the campsite, Morgana used a plane shift to take her protector (the blackguard) and herself to Plague-Mort, saying that this wasn't over. Elric, teleported himself and the (blinded) assassin to a yuan-ti city close enough to the surface to not have that weird underdark radiation, bowing to Elvira and telling her that round one went to her. The party has been living in terror of the return of the drow. Morganna used her 4,000 platinum coins (and some gold she had) to hire the bugbears and demons, and has returned to the Material Plane. Elric has been scrying on the party, and plans to teleport in with the assassin and one of the ranger/scouts after Morganna has beat up the party. MuHAHA! :D
Seraph of Babel 01-12-05, 10:23 AM	I did a simple v3.5 conversion (following the official v3.5 update style) for Book of Vile Darkness some time back over here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=190192) at the BOVD forum.
CelestialBarbarian 01-12-05, 02:43 PM	I did a simple v3.5 conversion (following the official v3.5 update style) for Book of Vile Darkness some time back over here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=190192) at the BOVD forum. Thanks! Hey it occurred to me this morning that with 8 HD a bar-lgura wouldn't respond to a lesser planar ally spell, so I'm going to end up dropping it back down to its original 6 hit dice. Ah well, it probably had too many hit points at 84 anyway!
CelestialBarbarian 01-12-05, 03:07 PM	Thanks! Hey it occurred to me this morning that with 8 HD a bar-lgura wouldn't respond to a lesser planar ally spell, so I'm going to end up dropping it back down to its original 6 hit dice. Ah well, it probably had too many hit points at 84 anyway! Gah! Going over the bar-lgura to change it back to 6 hit dice I see that I messed up some stuff. I raised the Constitution 6 points rather than the 4 I thought (and actually had 24 instead of 22 under the ability scores section, for an increase of 8!). I'm keeping the increase at 6, thus making the Con equal to the new Strength score of 22, and giving it 63 hit points. I also forgot to mention that I increased the natural armor bonus by two to 10.