beholder help [Archive] - Wizards Community

beholder help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lordmolay
06-03-05, 01:32 PM A Few Questions about beholders:

1: Can they use their eye rays while using their antimagic eye? The MM says that it suppresses their eye rays but dose that just mean with in the cone? Or dose that mean all together? I was thinking that they could shoot an eye ray just as long as it was not within the antimagic cone

2: assuming they can't fire their eye rays…. If they took one of the feats from lords of madness (LoM) that allows them to cause their ant magic come to one person can they thin fire eye rays?

3: with that feat can they keep the antimagic field on a person not matter what they do?

4: The beholder that my party is going to fight will know the parties tactics and I have a wizard who likes to use disintegrate… can the beholder use a ring of counters spells and each time the spell is cast and deflected out of the ring can he just touch the ring again with his eye stalk of disintegrate and have the ring recharge with a new disintegrate counter spell??

5: I’m also looking for new ways to make this beholder more nasty: is there a beholder paragon template somewhere one line or in a book that I don’t know about? A a different template that would make him more nasty? (the beholder can have up to a +3 level adjustment)

6: if I were to add come minion to the fight what would be the best creatures to have in the fight? I was thinking 3 gauths?
CzarGarrett
06-03-05, 01:38 PM With not looking at the MM as I speak:

1. When forward facing. The central eye looks forward, and the stalks can fire towards the flanks and rear

2/3. Unfamiliar with LoM and I don't quite get the question.

4. I think the ring functions normally, so it requires an actual spell not spell-like ability

5. In the newest Dragon mag there's an Abberation Paragon.

6. I would see a Beholder going for a lot of cannon-fodder type. Not much in the way of deadly, but can hold off the PCs long enough for the beholder to take them out with their eyes.
lordmolay
06-03-05, 02:35 PM Thanks... i will have to look at some of that.... espcally the abberation paragon
Sarlax
06-03-05, 03:53 PM 1: Can they use their eye rays while using their antimagic eye?
Yes. The Antimagic Cone will only suppress the effects of magic (including eye rays) that pass through it. It can still fire rays in other directions.

3: with that feat can they keep the antimagic field on a person not matter what they do?
Yes. D&D doesn't have any rules about facing, which means there's no way for the target to "get behind" the behold to escape the effect. This makes sense, since D&D assumes that all characters in a battle are constantly turning around and shifting - including beholds.

4: can the beholder use a ring of counters spells and each time the spell is cast and deflected out of the ring can he just touch the ring again with his eye stalk of disintegrate and have the ring recharge with a new disintegrate counter spell??
No. The ring requires spells, not spell-like abilities.

5: I’m also looking for new ways to make this beholder more nasty (the beholder can have up to a +3 level adjustment)
A +3 LA? Or +3 CR?

Assuming you meant CR, there aren't a ton of templates that synergize well with beholders. I'd tweak an existing template instead. For instance, consider adding the lich template (ignore the "humanoids only" bit). It gets natural AC, a nasty paralysis attack that it can use on melee-oriented PCs (and still use all its eye rays), excellent DR, the boost to Charisma increases the save DC to its eye rays, and it can use its only Inflict ray to heal its wounds.

The ghost template is also pretty nasty on beholders.

6: if I were to add come minion to the fight what would be the best creatures to have in the fight? I was thinking 3 gauths?
The best creatures to assist beholds fall into 2 groups: magic-free monsters and the undead.

Magic-free monsters are creatures who are tough without magic items, spells, or spell-like abilities. Giants, trolls, golems, etc. all qualify. These creatures can sit right in the middle of the antimagic cone without being impaired. Since you're probably dealing with a high-level party, the warriors will be dependent on magical weapons. If you lace them with antimagic, they lose a ton of their offensive power, but the magic-free minion can whale on the warrior without impairment.

As a side benefit, magic-free monsters like giants also make sense since they are often giant brutes with low Will saves, which makes it easy to explain why they work with the beholder (he charmed them).

Undead are solid minions for beholds because the beholder can, as a free action every round, target them with its inflict ray to heal the creature. If your behold has the Focused Antimagic feat, use this tactic: target the biggest warrior's magic weapon to negate its power. Then have an incorporeal undead creature attack. The warrior will be incapable of attacking the creature. Consider shadows and spectres for this job.
lordmolay
06-03-05, 04:25 PM Thank you so much the only proble i see is that it says antimagic cone witch means that in a Behloder fight there needs to be some facing... or atlease a place for the cone... Other than that thank you so much
yonman
06-03-05, 04:30 PM From the SRD about Anti-magic:

Summoned or conjured creatures of any type, as well as incorporeal creatures, wink out if they enter the area of an antimagic effect. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away.

Therefore, Shadows and Spectres would wink out.
Sarlax
06-03-05, 06:09 PM Thank you so much the only proble i see is that it says antimagic cone witch means that in a Behloder fight there needs to be some facing... or atlease a place for the cone... Other than that thank you so much
You have a good point. The cone strongly implies facing. The monster description of the ability says that the beholder determines whether the cone is active "once each round, during its turn." In normal place, that would probably mean you select a single quarter-circle that is affected for an entire round, beginning on the beholder's initiative count.

Even though the beholder is actually spinning and dodging, you can somewhat justify this by saying that the antimagic cone is only strong enough to negate magic if it's relatively stable. If you keep shaking it around (more than once a round), it can't "catch" supernatural effects to negate them. It's kind of like a flashlight - you need to point it in once place to get any use out of it.

If it uses the Focused Antimagic feat, though, it tightens to cone to a single creature or objects. Since the "beam is tight," it can afford to shake it around and follow a single creature as it dodges, spins, and weaves during a fight.
Sarlax
06-03-05, 06:11 PM Therefore, Shadows and Spectres would wink out.
Only in an Antimagic Cone. However, I specified the use of incorporeal undead in conjunction with the Focused Antimagic feat, which allows a beholders to target a single creature or object with its antimagic ability, which would leave the shadow/spectre free to attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lordmolay 06-03-05, 01:32 PM	A Few Questions about beholders: 1: Can they use their eye rays while using their antimagic eye? The MM says that it suppresses their eye rays but dose that just mean with in the cone? Or dose that mean all together? I was thinking that they could shoot an eye ray just as long as it was not within the antimagic cone 2: assuming they can't fire their eye rays…. If they took one of the feats from lords of madness (LoM) that allows them to cause their ant magic come to one person can they thin fire eye rays? 3: with that feat can they keep the antimagic field on a person not matter what they do? 4: The beholder that my party is going to fight will know the parties tactics and I have a wizard who likes to use disintegrate… can the beholder use a ring of counters spells and each time the spell is cast and deflected out of the ring can he just touch the ring again with his eye stalk of disintegrate and have the ring recharge with a new disintegrate counter spell?? 5: I’m also looking for new ways to make this beholder more nasty: is there a beholder paragon template somewhere one line or in a book that I don’t know about? A a different template that would make him more nasty? (the beholder can have up to a +3 level adjustment) 6: if I were to add come minion to the fight what would be the best creatures to have in the fight? I was thinking 3 gauths?
CzarGarrett 06-03-05, 01:38 PM	With not looking at the MM as I speak: 1. When forward facing. The central eye looks forward, and the stalks can fire towards the flanks and rear 2/3. Unfamiliar with LoM and I don't quite get the question. 4. I think the ring functions normally, so it requires an actual spell not spell-like ability 5. In the newest Dragon mag there's an Abberation Paragon. 6. I would see a Beholder going for a lot of cannon-fodder type. Not much in the way of deadly, but can hold off the PCs long enough for the beholder to take them out with their eyes.
lordmolay 06-03-05, 02:35 PM	Thanks... i will have to look at some of that.... espcally the abberation paragon
Sarlax 06-03-05, 03:53 PM	1: Can they use their eye rays while using their antimagic eye? Yes. The Antimagic Cone will only suppress the effects of magic (including eye rays) that pass through it. It can still fire rays in other directions. 3: with that feat can they keep the antimagic field on a person not matter what they do? Yes. D&D doesn't have any rules about facing, which means there's no way for the target to "get behind" the behold to escape the effect. This makes sense, since D&D assumes that all characters in a battle are constantly turning around and shifting - including beholds. 4: can the beholder use a ring of counters spells and each time the spell is cast and deflected out of the ring can he just touch the ring again with his eye stalk of disintegrate and have the ring recharge with a new disintegrate counter spell?? No. The ring requires spells, not spell-like abilities. 5: I’m also looking for new ways to make this beholder more nasty (the beholder can have up to a +3 level adjustment) A +3 LA? Or +3 CR? Assuming you meant CR, there aren't a ton of templates that synergize well with beholders. I'd tweak an existing template instead. For instance, consider adding the lich template (ignore the "humanoids only" bit). It gets natural AC, a nasty paralysis attack that it can use on melee-oriented PCs (and still use all its eye rays), excellent DR, the boost to Charisma increases the save DC to its eye rays, and it can use its only Inflict ray to heal its wounds. The ghost template is also pretty nasty on beholders. 6: if I were to add come minion to the fight what would be the best creatures to have in the fight? I was thinking 3 gauths? The best creatures to assist beholds fall into 2 groups: magic-free monsters and the undead. Magic-free monsters are creatures who are tough without magic items, spells, or spell-like abilities. Giants, trolls, golems, etc. all qualify. These creatures can sit right in the middle of the antimagic cone without being impaired. Since you're probably dealing with a high-level party, the warriors will be dependent on magical weapons. If you lace them with antimagic, they lose a ton of their offensive power, but the magic-free minion can whale on the warrior without impairment. As a side benefit, magic-free monsters like giants also make sense since they are often giant brutes with low Will saves, which makes it easy to explain why they work with the beholder (he charmed them). Undead are solid minions for beholds because the beholder can, as a free action every round, target them with its inflict ray to heal the creature. If your behold has the Focused Antimagic feat, use this tactic: target the biggest warrior's magic weapon to negate its power. Then have an incorporeal undead creature attack. The warrior will be incapable of attacking the creature. Consider shadows and spectres for this job.
lordmolay 06-03-05, 04:25 PM	Thank you so much the only proble i see is that it says antimagic cone witch means that in a Behloder fight there needs to be some facing... or atlease a place for the cone... Other than that thank you so much
yonman 06-03-05, 04:30 PM	From the SRD about Anti-magic: Summoned or conjured creatures of any type, as well as incorporeal creatures, wink out if they enter the area of an antimagic effect. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Therefore, Shadows and Spectres would wink out.
Sarlax 06-03-05, 06:09 PM	Thank you so much the only proble i see is that it says antimagic cone witch means that in a Behloder fight there needs to be some facing... or atlease a place for the cone... Other than that thank you so much You have a good point. The cone strongly implies facing. The monster description of the ability says that the beholder determines whether the cone is active "once each round, during its turn." In normal place, that would probably mean you select a single quarter-circle that is affected for an entire round, beginning on the beholder's initiative count. Even though the beholder is actually spinning and dodging, you can somewhat justify this by saying that the antimagic cone is only strong enough to negate magic if it's relatively stable. If you keep shaking it around (more than once a round), it can't "catch" supernatural effects to negate them. It's kind of like a flashlight - you need to point it in once place to get any use out of it. If it uses the Focused Antimagic feat, though, it tightens to cone to a single creature or objects. Since the "beam is tight," it can afford to shake it around and follow a single creature as it dodges, spins, and weaves during a fight.
Sarlax 06-03-05, 06:11 PM	Therefore, Shadows and Spectres would wink out. Only in an Antimagic Cone. However, I specified the use of incorporeal undead in conjunction with the Focused Antimagic feat, which allows a beholders to target a single creature or object with its antimagic ability, which would leave the shadow/spectre free to attack.