beholders ray dispellable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

beholders ray dispellable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mahaxxx
08-24-05, 03:37 PM ok here is the problem, as far as dispelling and counterseplling and restoration after the fight and such:
under the beholder entry for eyerays : eyerays (Su): would make all the spell like effects (SU) right? ok if that is so and you cant dispell a supernatrual effect then you cant dipsell the charm affects of the eyerays. is that right or am i figuring this wrong?
flesh to stone is a nasty example if it cant be dispelled also.
goliath1
08-24-05, 03:53 PM well I think there supernatural like you said so no srry you can't. I think.
Rutibex
09-01-05, 05:06 PM The discription of the Eye Rays (su) says: "...each eye resembles spell..." and the individual ray discription tend to say "Target must succeed on a will/fort save or be affected as though by the spell".

I would say that having the eye rays is a supernatural power for the purposes of shapechange or other such things, but the rays themselves act like spells and can be countered/dispelled.
runestar
09-01-05, 09:58 PM I think the rays being SU abilities, cannot be dispelled, though they can be suppressed in an AMF. However, the effects of the rays emulate those of spells of their namesake and can thus be dispelled

Bottom line: the act of firing a ray cannot be countered, since they are SU.
The effects of the ray can be dispelled as they are magical effects, like spells.
BlackRaven
09-01-05, 10:32 PM Warlocks also have spell like abilities... as does an archmage. If I'm not mistaken, a beholders eye rays are spell like abilities... no? If so, then you could counter them if you had the equivalent spell or by using a displel magic type counterspell (if you didnt have the spell to counter with). I know you can counter the spell like abilities of that of a Warlock or Archmage, why not a beholder? As far as perminately dispelling them? I'd say no, as they are innate. That'd be like saying your going to dispel a dragons breath weapon.... not gonna happen. But I'm not sure on this... I'll look into it more. :) Might be wrong. ;)
BlackRaven
09-01-05, 10:34 PM I think the rays being SU abilities, cannot be dispelled, though they can be suppressed in an AMF. However, the effects of the rays emulate those of spells of their namesake and can thus be dispelled

Bottom line: the act of firing a ray cannot be countered, since they are SU.
The effects of the ray can be dispelled as they are magical effects, like spells.

I agree that the act of firing them cannot be countered... but when you counter a spell, it's not like your actually stopping the casting of the spell, but rather instantly nullifying its effect as soon as it exsists.
skroz
09-01-05, 11:10 PM From Lords of Madness description of the Overseer Beholderkin (p. 140)

Command Beholder (Sp): ... If an overseer loses control of a dominated beholder (as is the case if a dominated beholder is in the antimagic cone of another beholder) the overseer can immediately sense the loss of control...

This implies that the Overseer's SPELL LIKE ABILITY can be overcome by an AMF.

From the description of the Beholder's antimagic cone:

Antimagic Cone (Su): ... All magical and supernatural powers and effects within the cone are suppressed - even the beholder's own eye rays ...

Looks to me like the eye rays CAN be affected by the AMF, and that the effects of a beholder's abilities can be overcome by a dispel magic after the fact.

Also look at the Overseer's "Temporal Stasis" effect. If it cannot be overcome by dispel magic or similar, it could never be overcome at all, and would therefore be absolutely permanent.
BlackRaven
09-02-05, 03:28 AM From Lords of Madness description of the Overseer Beholderkin (p. 140)

Command Beholder (Sp): ... If an overseer loses control of a dominated beholder (as is the case if a dominated beholder is in the antimagic cone of another beholder) the overseer can immediately sense the loss of control...

This implies that the Overseer's SPELL LIKE ABILITY can be overcome by an AMF.

From the description of the Beholder's antimagic cone:

Antimagic Cone (Su): ... All magical and supernatural powers and effects within the cone are suppressed - even the beholder's own eye rays ...

Looks to me like the eye rays CAN be affected by the AMF, and that the effects of a beholder's abilities can be overcome by a dispel magic after the fact.

Also look at the Overseer's "Temporal Stasis" effect. If it cannot be overcome by dispel magic or similar, it could never be overcome at all, and would therefore be absolutely permanent.

Indeed. I agree with you. :) But still, the beholder only has to reuse his eye the next round and BAM you have another field going. So unless you can counter/dispell all day long, its kinda moot usually.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mahaxxx 08-24-05, 03:37 PM	ok here is the problem, as far as dispelling and counterseplling and restoration after the fight and such: under the beholder entry for eyerays : eyerays (Su): would make all the spell like effects (SU) right? ok if that is so and you cant dispell a supernatrual effect then you cant dipsell the charm affects of the eyerays. is that right or am i figuring this wrong? flesh to stone is a nasty example if it cant be dispelled also.
goliath1 08-24-05, 03:53 PM	well I think there supernatural like you said so no srry you can't. I think.
Rutibex 09-01-05, 05:06 PM	The discription of the Eye Rays (su) says: "...each eye resembles spell..." and the individual ray discription tend to say "Target must succeed on a will/fort save or be affected as though by the spell". I would say that having the eye rays is a supernatural power for the purposes of shapechange or other such things, but the rays themselves act like spells and can be countered/dispelled.
runestar 09-01-05, 09:58 PM	I think the rays being SU abilities, cannot be dispelled, though they can be suppressed in an AMF. However, the effects of the rays emulate those of spells of their namesake and can thus be dispelled Bottom line: the act of firing a ray cannot be countered, since they are SU. The effects of the ray can be dispelled as they are magical effects, like spells.
BlackRaven 09-01-05, 10:32 PM	Warlocks also have spell like abilities... as does an archmage. If I'm not mistaken, a beholders eye rays are spell like abilities... no? If so, then you could counter them if you had the equivalent spell or by using a displel magic type counterspell (if you didnt have the spell to counter with). I know you can counter the spell like abilities of that of a Warlock or Archmage, why not a beholder? As far as perminately dispelling them? I'd say no, as they are innate. That'd be like saying your going to dispel a dragons breath weapon.... not gonna happen. But I'm not sure on this... I'll look into it more. :) Might be wrong. ;)
BlackRaven 09-01-05, 10:34 PM	I think the rays being SU abilities, cannot be dispelled, though they can be suppressed in an AMF. However, the effects of the rays emulate those of spells of their namesake and can thus be dispelled Bottom line: the act of firing a ray cannot be countered, since they are SU. The effects of the ray can be dispelled as they are magical effects, like spells. I agree that the act of firing them cannot be countered... but when you counter a spell, it's not like your actually stopping the casting of the spell, but rather instantly nullifying its effect as soon as it exsists.
skroz 09-01-05, 11:10 PM	From Lords of Madness description of the Overseer Beholderkin (p. 140) Command Beholder (Sp): ... If an overseer loses control of a dominated beholder (as is the case if a dominated beholder is in the antimagic cone of another beholder) the overseer can immediately sense the loss of control... This implies that the Overseer's SPELL LIKE ABILITY can be overcome by an AMF. From the description of the Beholder's antimagic cone: Antimagic Cone (Su): ... All magical and supernatural powers and effects within the cone are suppressed - even the beholder's own eye rays ... Looks to me like the eye rays CAN be affected by the AMF, and that the effects of a beholder's abilities can be overcome by a dispel magic after the fact. Also look at the Overseer's "Temporal Stasis" effect. If it cannot be overcome by dispel magic or similar, it could never be overcome at all, and would therefore be absolutely permanent.
BlackRaven 09-02-05, 03:28 AM	From Lords of Madness description of the Overseer Beholderkin (p. 140) Command Beholder (Sp): ... If an overseer loses control of a dominated beholder (as is the case if a dominated beholder is in the antimagic cone of another beholder) the overseer can immediately sense the loss of control... This implies that the Overseer's SPELL LIKE ABILITY can be overcome by an AMF. From the description of the Beholder's antimagic cone: Antimagic Cone (Su): ... All magical and supernatural powers and effects within the cone are suppressed - even the beholder's own eye rays ... Looks to me like the eye rays CAN be affected by the AMF, and that the effects of a beholder's abilities can be overcome by a dispel magic after the fact. Also look at the Overseer's "Temporal Stasis" effect. If it cannot be overcome by dispel magic or similar, it could never be overcome at all, and would therefore be absolutely permanent. Indeed. I agree with you. :) But still, the beholder only has to reuse his eye the next round and BAM you have another field going. So unless you can counter/dispell all day long, its kinda moot usually.