Bend the CR challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bend the CR challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
devinmdp
10-07-03, 10:56 PM Here's the challenge:

Try to find the lowest EL encounter you can think of that will be able to take on the highest party level you can think of.

What do I mean?

Example:

Finding 3 CR 3 monsters (EL 5) that can wipe out a party of 8th level characters.

In other words, which monsters kick the most butt for their CR?

My nominations:

1. Ash Rats - tiny CR but with a +7 ranged touch attack and with the nerfing of Endure Elements and with concealment powers, a few of these concentrating fire on a single PC can wipe out entire parties!

2. Allips - touch attack drains Wisdom. Permanently! And they have a babble attack and are incorporeal and have turn resistance! One of the most vicious CR 3 monsters around.

3. Cornugons - yeah....CR 16 is big and mean...but can you say a DC 27 fear aura to take out the fighters and a DC 27 stun attack (1D4 rounds) with the whip to take out the big brains? Add an AC of 35 and attacks of +25/+20/+15 and +22 and +22 and...um....yikes! DC 27 is pretty tough even at high levels. And don't forget, it has 172 hp and you need a silver AND good weapon to overcome its DR and to do lethal damage to it (or spells with the good descriptor).

4. Carrion Crawlers - always a meanie in all editions of D&D, 8 attacks that paralyze. Enough said.

5. Hook Horror - yeah, it gets two attacks at +13 and if both hit you WILL be grappled (+18) and then it gets to bite you automatically every round for 3d6+10 damage (plus claw damage). That's mean. Combined with a 22 AC and a nice 65 hit points and some really nice saves (+5 Fort, +6 Ref, +8 Will) and you have a lean, mean CR 6 killing machine.

Those are my noms for the most bang for their CR buck.

Devin
ConfusedUs
10-07-03, 11:42 PM With proper setup and preparation, I've seen a group of 20 kobolds kill off a 5 person 15th level party.

Yup, kobolds. Of course, the place was trapped to hell and back ;)
devinmdp
10-08-03, 03:08 AM Traps technically get their own CRs, so that doesn't really count.

Devin
Boondoggle
10-08-03, 05:09 AM Kuo-Toa are pretty nasty.

In 3.0, there was my wonderful 1/2 clay golem 1/2 learnean hydra. For CR 10 it was neigh unkillable. But, alas, 3.5 has killed it for good. (Someone else has discovered the 1/2 clay golem 1/2 ocean giant which apparently didn't get nerfed.)
Mr.Waesel
10-08-03, 05:31 AM Originally posted by Boondoggle
(Someone else has discovered the 1/2 clay golem 1/2 ocean giant which apparently didn't get nerfed.)

*Pats himself on the chest*

In 3.0, mummies were awesome for cr 3. A Howler still is.
Dalaeck
10-08-03, 09:46 AM Dire apes... 2 claws +8 melee 1d6+6, bite 1d8+3 rend 1d6+12 (!) 10 feet reach - scent.
Move silently +9, spot +9
CR 3 ....

Better hope you're a 3rd level barbarian...

Girallon is only a little worse, you may be able to stand up to one for one round if it rolls poorly and the DM only allows for one rend attack.
Chobemaster
10-08-03, 11:08 AM I did suprisingly well against my party, average 8th at the time, with 3 grell. It was just too many attack rolls w/ saves, especially since the grell got surprise. Was a TPK.
lukelightning
10-08-03, 01:34 PM All those multi-armed/tentacled things are overpowered for their CR's. A carrion crawler with 8 attacks is pretty much guaranteed to hit and paralyze you, and grells are even worse. I've got 10 fingers...does that mean I can make 10 touch attacks? In a lot of these situations I think they should change the attack to "one tentacle flail" which involves all the tentacles attacking a target, maybe give it a bonus to hit or something, but not 8 individual attacks.

The only saving grace is when my druid gets a chance to wildshape into a giant octopus....

Originally posted by Chobemaster
I did suprisingly well against my party, average 8th at the time, with 3 grell. It was just too many attack rolls w/ saves, especially since the grell got surprise. Was a TPK.
The Abominable Darkling
10-08-03, 04:13 PM Hands down, the most broken thing is the half-fiend template. A half-fiend colossal monstrous scorpion, for example, is a CR 14, but its blasphemy will instantly kill a level 30 party with no save.
ThePo
10-08-03, 05:36 PM Nimblewrights...CR 7. Critical Machines from the MM II.

Send a squad of them as assasins versus the party and watch the wipe. Worst part is they can alter self, so unless some genius has a true seeing on. 9 out of 10 the nimbles will get a surprise round. Watched a group of 5 of these nasties wipe a group of 4 level 13's. They're intelligent so the first to go down is the caster//healer and after that it's curtains.

And i concur with the grell situation. Had 3 of them damn near wipe a group. hehe, silly ranger failed his save and i decided the grell would levitate and carry him away for lunchy. :D hehe, took some tricky tree climbing and jumping that ended with the ranger at -7 after the fall from the grell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
devinmdp 10-07-03, 10:56 PM	Here's the challenge: Try to find the lowest EL encounter you can think of that will be able to take on the highest party level you can think of. What do I mean? Example: Finding 3 CR 3 monsters (EL 5) that can wipe out a party of 8th level characters. In other words, which monsters kick the most butt for their CR? My nominations: 1. Ash Rats - tiny CR but with a +7 ranged touch attack and with the nerfing of Endure Elements and with concealment powers, a few of these concentrating fire on a single PC can wipe out entire parties! 2. Allips - touch attack drains Wisdom. Permanently! And they have a babble attack and are incorporeal and have turn resistance! One of the most vicious CR 3 monsters around. 3. Cornugons - yeah....CR 16 is big and mean...but can you say a DC 27 fear aura to take out the fighters and a DC 27 stun attack (1D4 rounds) with the whip to take out the big brains? Add an AC of 35 and attacks of +25/+20/+15 and +22 and +22 and...um....yikes! DC 27 is pretty tough even at high levels. And don't forget, it has 172 hp and you need a silver AND good weapon to overcome its DR and to do lethal damage to it (or spells with the good descriptor). 4. Carrion Crawlers - always a meanie in all editions of D&D, 8 attacks that paralyze. Enough said. 5. Hook Horror - yeah, it gets two attacks at +13 and if both hit you WILL be grappled (+18) and then it gets to bite you automatically every round for 3d6+10 damage (plus claw damage). That's mean. Combined with a 22 AC and a nice 65 hit points and some really nice saves (+5 Fort, +6 Ref, +8 Will) and you have a lean, mean CR 6 killing machine. Those are my noms for the most bang for their CR buck. Devin
ConfusedUs 10-07-03, 11:42 PM	With proper setup and preparation, I've seen a group of 20 kobolds kill off a 5 person 15th level party. Yup, kobolds. Of course, the place was trapped to hell and back ;)
devinmdp 10-08-03, 03:08 AM	Traps technically get their own CRs, so that doesn't really count. Devin
Boondoggle 10-08-03, 05:09 AM	Kuo-Toa are pretty nasty. In 3.0, there was my wonderful 1/2 clay golem 1/2 learnean hydra. For CR 10 it was neigh unkillable. But, alas, 3.5 has killed it for good. (Someone else has discovered the 1/2 clay golem 1/2 ocean giant which apparently didn't get nerfed.)
Mr.Waesel 10-08-03, 05:31 AM	Originally posted by Boondoggle (Someone else has discovered the 1/2 clay golem 1/2 ocean giant which apparently didn't get nerfed.) Pats himself on the chest In 3.0, mummies were awesome for cr 3. A Howler still is.
Dalaeck 10-08-03, 09:46 AM	Dire apes... 2 claws +8 melee 1d6+6, bite 1d8+3 rend 1d6+12 (!) 10 feet reach - scent. Move silently +9, spot +9 CR 3 .... Better hope you're a 3rd level barbarian... Girallon is only a little worse, you may be able to stand up to one for one round if it rolls poorly and the DM only allows for one rend attack.
Chobemaster 10-08-03, 11:08 AM	I did suprisingly well against my party, average 8th at the time, with 3 grell. It was just too many attack rolls w/ saves, especially since the grell got surprise. Was a TPK.
lukelightning 10-08-03, 01:34 PM	All those multi-armed/tentacled things are overpowered for their CR's. A carrion crawler with 8 attacks is pretty much guaranteed to hit and paralyze you, and grells are even worse. I've got 10 fingers...does that mean I can make 10 touch attacks? In a lot of these situations I think they should change the attack to "one tentacle flail" which involves all the tentacles attacking a target, maybe give it a bonus to hit or something, but not 8 individual attacks. The only saving grace is when my druid gets a chance to wildshape into a giant octopus.... Originally posted by Chobemaster I did suprisingly well against my party, average 8th at the time, with 3 grell. It was just too many attack rolls w/ saves, especially since the grell got surprise. Was a TPK.
The Abominable Darkling 10-08-03, 04:13 PM	Hands down, the most broken thing is the half-fiend template. A half-fiend colossal monstrous scorpion, for example, is a CR 14, but its blasphemy will instantly kill a level 30 party with no save.
ThePo 10-08-03, 05:36 PM	Nimblewrights...CR 7. Critical Machines from the MM II. Send a squad of them as assasins versus the party and watch the wipe. Worst part is they can alter self, so unless some genius has a true seeing on. 9 out of 10 the nimbles will get a surprise round. Watched a group of 5 of these nasties wipe a group of 4 level 13's. They're intelligent so the first to go down is the caster//healer and after that it's curtains. And i concur with the grell situation. Had 3 of them damn near wipe a group. hehe, silly ranger failed his save and i decided the grell would levitate and carry him away for lunchy. :D hehe, took some tricky tree climbing and jumping that ended with the ranger at -7 after the fall from the grell.