Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maladaar 05-11-04, 03:28 AM	Let's say a young adult black dragon casts darkness on an area and then attempts to use its breath weapon against a PC in the area of darkness. I know the dragon can use its blindsense 60 to pinpoint the PC, but since technically the dragon cannot see the PC, the PC still has the benefit of a 50% miss chance. The question is how is this resolved. Does the PC still attempt a save failure for full, save for half. If the 50% miss chance does in fact result in a miss does it reduce the effect of the save--such as failure for full damage, becomes half damage, success for half, becomes no damage? Or is the miss completely a miss regardless of the save against the breath weapon.
Craith 05-11-04, 05:04 AM	I might be wrong, but i always thought that area effects don't suffer a miss chance because of concealment. It doesn't matter if I'm invisible, as long as I'm in the area of a black dragons breath weapon it is going to hurt me (as long as I don't have Evasion). Same for the Darkness spell: There is still a line of acid in the area I occupy, I'm still there (unlike blink, where I am NOT there) Greetings Craith
Maladaar 05-11-04, 05:18 AM	That is the question. For the example I gave (young adult black dragon), the breath weapon is a line 80' long by 5' wide by 5' high. I was hoping that maybe this was covered in the draconomicon. I have a copy at home, but unfortunately I am at work and only brought the MM to create a young black dragon for an upcoming encounter. I was thinking of tactics that it might use when this suddenly popped into my head.
teclis 05-11-04, 12:24 PM	darkness = useless vrs dragon breath weapon. all they have to do is pinpoint the square your in, and their blindsense can do that. miss chance only applies to attacks with an attack roll, which breath weapons obviously dont have.
Maladaar 05-11-04, 10:47 PM	Thanks. It would seem to make sense that since there is no "attack roll" that the miss chance would not apply. I just wanted to make sure before I pull this on the group (just in case there is any argument from any player that may be struck.
The Red Scorpion 05-13-04, 01:29 PM	Well, while it is clear that the dragon won't miss with its breath dragon if the victims are in the darkness spell so long as the targets are within reach of the dragons blindsense, another question is: Do PCs get a higher DC vs the dragon's Breath Weapon? While it is clear that they can still react to danger, not knowing what the dragon is doing or where the breath weapon is coming from should make it more difficult for PCs to avoid the attack what do you think?
Craith 05-15-04, 09:00 AM	I don't think that being blinded should weaken your reflexes. IMO you don't get the reflex save because you see the dragon breathing acid on you but because you "feel" that there is something bad coming your way, the air that is replaced by the acid, the smell of it, all those things you feel a partial second before the acid hits you. But if you want a penalty to the reflex save then you could extend the "Dexterity-based" part of blinded on saves too Blinded: The character cannot see. He takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a –4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them. But then you have to apply the same logic to saves vs. invisible an hidden foes. Atenio Craith
Maladaar 05-17-04, 01:28 AM	Red actually beat me to that question. I would definitely think that the PC should receive a penalty on the Reflex check, if they are in an area of magical darkness during the dragon breath weapon attack. This is assuming that the dragon has pinpointed them. That is definitely a dodging what you see coming type of thing, not a "spidey"-sense of imminent danger.
Amaron Blackthorn 07-03-04, 03:27 PM	the best use of this tatic was by Onyx in DL1 and Dragons of Autumn Twilight!
obrysii 07-06-04, 03:37 PM	Originally posted by teclis darkness = useless vrs dragon breath weapon. Unless, of course, the dragon's breath weapon (I know, not this example) is a line of light ;)
Derren S. 07-06-04, 03:39 PM	Originally posted by obrysii Unless, of course, the dragon's breath weapon (I know, not this example) is a line of light ;) With the 3.0 Darkness maybe, but the 3.5 shadowy illumination imo wouldn't stop this.
Amaron Blackthorn 07-07-04, 12:00 PM	I still say that if you havent read the chapter in the Dragonlance Chronicles when Onyx comes out for the first time you should to get an idea of the potency of this combination.