Blood Drinker Maw (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blood Drinker Maw (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
x-Wraith-x
03-08-06, 05:41 PM One of my favorite creations posted online for criticism and likely CR change. After I thought about it for a while I realized that the fact that it is immobile means that except for in a closed room or dungeon I doubt this guy should have such a high CR, so what CR should it have?

Blood Drinker Maw
Huge Plant (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 20d8+183 (273 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 0 ft. (0 squares)
Armor Class: 26 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +19 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 26
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+31
Attack: Tentacle +22 melee (2d6+8/19-20)
Full Attack: 4 tentacles +22 melee (2d6+8/19-20)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft. (20 ft. with tentacle)
Special Attacks: Imprisonment, improved grab, swallow whole
Special Qualities: All-around vision, damage reduction 10/magic and slashing, low-light vision, plant traits, regeneration 5, spell resistance 28, tremorsense 60 ft., vulnerability to fire
Saves: Fort +23, Ref +5, Will +7
Abilities: Str 27, Dex 8, Con 28, Int 7, Wis 13, Cha 10
Skills: Hide -9*, Knowledge (nature) +1, Search +3, Spot +5, Survival +24
Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Critical (tentacle), Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (tentacle)
Environment: Tartarian Depths of Carceri
Organization: Solitary or cluster (2-10)
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: 21-30 HD (Huge); 31-60 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: --

The creature looks like an enormous pitcher plant the color of blood, with ferny leaves surrounding its base and many long green tentacles rising from the bottom of the creature. About half way up the plant, four large eyes open on two sides, and stare at you with a malevolent glare.

Blood drinker maws are horrible plants from carceri that feed on the blood of living beings, which they trap within their bodies until the thousands of teeth within kill them or they die of blood loss from the wounds inflicted by the fangs. Though they may look mindless, blood drinker maws are reasonably intelligent and are viciously cruel, often torturing their opponents until they finally drop them into their body to receive a slow, painful death.
An average blood drinker maw is around 20 feet high, and weighs at least 4 tons.

Combat:

Blood drinker maws are immobile, and therefore wait in the jungles of carceri for a creature to approach, and lash out with their tentacles, attempting to swallow as many opponents as it can.

A blood drinker maw’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Imprisonment (Su): Any creature within a blood drinker maw is surrounded by a spherical wall of force and affected by a dimensional anchor (both caster level 15th) for as long as it remains within the maw. The wall of force does not protect the victim from damage, but it does prevent the victim from attacking the maw’s interior. The dimensional anchor effect cannot be negated in any way, but if a creature manages to destroy the wall of force, the blood drinker maw loses this ability for 24 hours.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the blood drinker maw must hit a creature of up to one size smaller with a tentacle attack. It can attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold, picks up the opponent, transfers it to the mouth as a free action, and can try to swallow the foe on the following round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A blood drinker maw can try to swallow a grabbed opponent by making a successful grapple check. Once inside the plant’s mass, the swallowed creature takes 2d10+10 points of slashing and piercing damage and 1d4 points of Con damage per round from the thousands of tiny fangs in the blood drinker maw’s interior. In addition, a swallowed creature is subject to the maw’s imprisonment ability (see above). A swallowed creature that overcomes imprisonment can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the interior (AC 19). Once the creature exits, the maw’s regenerative capacity closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

A Huge blood drinker maw’s interior can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents.

All-Around Vision (Ex): A blood drinker maw’s multiple eyes allow it to see in all directions at once, bestowing a +4 racial bonus on Spot and Search checks. Opponents gain no flanking bonuses when attacking a blood drinker maw.

Regeneration (Ex): Fire deals normal damage to a blood drinker maw. If a blood drinker maw loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d8 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it against the stump.

Skills: *Blood drinker maws have a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks made in jungle areas.
Maxxx
03-08-06, 06:49 PM CR for this one is hard and depends more on the location than for other creatures, but 14 could be ok. I just have a question about the Imprisonment ability, how can one destroy the sphere of force, like an ordinary one or is there some other means? As it is written the only way a level 14 party could get around it, would be the disintegrate spell, which I think should not be the only way to get out, as this would mean that some groups would not be able to do anything against the creature after they are swallowed, which from a game mechanical point of view is not that good of an idea. You could perhaps introduce some other possibility to get past the force effect.
x-Wraith-x
03-08-06, 08:06 PM CR for this one is hard and depends more on the location than for other creatures, but 14 could be ok. I just have a question about the Imprisonment ability, how can one destroy the sphere of force, like an ordinary one or is there some other means? As it is written the only way a level 14 party could get around it, would be the disintegrate spell, which I think should not be the only way to get out, as this would mean that some groups would not be able to do anything against the creature after they are swallowed, which from a game mechanical point of view is not that good of an idea. You could perhaps introduce some other possibility to get past the force effect.

Umm....killing the Blood Drinker Maw. :D

Well most level 14 parties probably pack at least 1 desintegrate spell or you could just have them find a scroll of it before the encounter if you really want.
Maxxx
03-09-06, 04:17 AM But you assume that they have someone in the party that can cast disintegrate, which is not always the case. You could, for example have a group with a druid being the sole caster. I just think that there should be some means for a non standard party to deal with it effectively and not having the encounter rely on one spell.
x-Wraith-x
03-09-06, 05:21 PM But you assume that they have someone in the party that can cast disintegrate, which is not always the case. You could, for example have a group with a druid being the sole caster. I just think that there should be some means for a non standard party to deal with it effectively and not having the encounter rely on one spell.

Think of it this way:

Barbarian rushes into combat, gets swalowed by the maw and is trapped. Now the party faces the challenge of killing the creature before it eats the barbarian, or even the whole party. I think that sort of an encounter makes for a unique and interesting encounter, but you could be right about that.

So what do other people think: Should I change Imprisonment, alter CR, anything?
dok
03-09-06, 06:40 PM I don't like the Imprisonment (Su) ability. It's rather nonsensical ("It's a plant. That has magical force-innards! Because you can't get free!") and seens written from a very strong meta-game perspective. ("Ha ha! You're swallowed, and you can't cut yourself free, escape with a grapple check, or teleport away!!! All you can do is twiddle your thumbs! HAHAHAHA!")

Swallow Whole (Ex): A blood drinker maw can try to swallow a grabbed opponent by making a successful grapple check. Once inside the plant’s mass, the swallowed creature takes 2d10+10 points of slashing and piercing damage and 1d4 points of Con damage per round from the thousands of tiny fangs in the blood drinker maw’s interior. In addition, a swallowed creature is subject to the maw’s imprisonment ability (see above).

...except that a creature afected by the Imprisonment ability can no longer be harmed by the thousands of tiny fangs. So the creature can either imprison someone, or it can hurt them, but it can't do both. Plus, by the wording of Imprison, the creature imprisons anything swallowed whole before it could take damage from the tiny fangs. Stranger still, there doesn't seem to be any way for the creature to voluntarily lower the imprison effect, meaning it can swallow creatures, but it can't actually eat them.

A swallowed creature that overcomes imprisonment can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the interior (AC 19).

Except, again, Imprisonment means they can't.

I hate to point this out, but a creature that's Swallowed Whole is still considered Grappled, even though the monster isn't. Which means that unless they have a weapon in-hand, it's a grapple check to draw one. It also means even if they do have a weapon in-hand that's usable, they're attacking at a -4, they cannot gain the benefits of the Power Attack feat, and they still must overcome the creature's DR 10/magic slashing.

All of that means escaping from the stomach isn't easy. If you really want it to be tough, here's what I'd recommend:

Dimensional Anchor: This creature, along with anything held or carried, is under the constant effects of a dimensional anchor spell. (caster level 15) This effect can be dispelled, but the creature may reactivate this effect as a free action.

Swallow Whole:(as above, except the interior of the creature is exceptionally tough and has DR 10/-. Despite not having a bite attack, it still requires two successful grapple checks to escape from the creature's stomach; the first check moves the character the mouth, while the second allows them to escape.

Now, if you really wanted to be cruel, you could add one more ability:

Dimensional Redirect: any creature attempting to use a form of extradimenionsal travel within 100 ft. of the Blood Drinker Maw must make a caster level check against the Maw's Spell Resistance. (supernatural abilities use the creature's Hit Dice for caster level in this case) Failure means that the extradimensional travel has been redirected, and the creature is instead transported to the Maw's stomach, suffering the effects of Swallow Whole, listed above.

I'd also suggest giving these creatures limited movement of say, 15 ft.? Alternatively, the creature could have the option of being "rooted" (with the Dimensional Anchor/Redirect effects in place) or mobile. (with a 15 ft or 20 ft. movement) Since the default mode would be "rooted", I'd call the ability "Uproot", say the Maw gains a ground speed of 20 ft. and looses it's Dimensional Anchor/Redirect abilities, and require a full-round action to Uproot or Root.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
03-09-06, 06:49 PM The Spell Resistance seems overly harsh, especially considering that only fire can kill the creature.

Speaking of that, you should add in another type of damage or two. Creatures should always have at least two types of energy that bypass their DR. After all, it would be disastrous if one of these things got fire imminuty, the fight was underwater, or some other circumstance.
x-Wraith-x
03-10-06, 05:58 PM OK so the ability is overpowered.

Some interesting editing is to begin.ç

Some Possibilities:
Edit #1: Remove spell resistance. Acid damage also bypasses regen. Remove the wall of force effect, give the creature a mage armor spell for its interior.

or

Edit #2: Make it a sort of magnet, making creatures makes saves each turn or be teleported into it (if they fail a save). Remove wall of force effect, spell resistance and acid damage bypasses regen.

or

Edit #3: Give it a speed or the ability to root/unroot, add in acid damage bypasses regen, remove wall of force effect.

or

Something else.

Personally I would like for it to still not have any movement as the idea is that it would make a unique encounter (hence suggestion #2), but if its not funcional I will change it to work better.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
x-Wraith-x 03-08-06, 05:41 PM	One of my favorite creations posted online for criticism and likely CR change. After I thought about it for a while I realized that the fact that it is immobile means that except for in a closed room or dungeon I doubt this guy should have such a high CR, so what CR should it have? Blood Drinker Maw Huge Plant (Extraplanar) Hit Dice: 20d8+183 (273 hp) Initiative: -1 Speed: 0 ft. (0 squares) Armor Class: 26 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +19 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 26 Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+31 Attack: Tentacle +22 melee (2d6+8/19-20) Full Attack: 4 tentacles +22 melee (2d6+8/19-20) Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft. (20 ft. with tentacle) Special Attacks: Imprisonment, improved grab, swallow whole Special Qualities: All-around vision, damage reduction 10/magic and slashing, low-light vision, plant traits, regeneration 5, spell resistance 28, tremorsense 60 ft., vulnerability to fire Saves: Fort +23, Ref +5, Will +7 Abilities: Str 27, Dex 8, Con 28, Int 7, Wis 13, Cha 10 Skills: Hide -9, Knowledge (nature) +1, Search +3, Spot +5, Survival +24 Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Critical (tentacle), Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (tentacle) Environment: Tartarian Depths of Carceri Organization: Solitary or cluster (2-10) Challenge Rating: 14 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Always neutral evil Advancement: 21-30 HD (Huge); 31-60 HD (Gargantuan) Level Adjustment: -- The creature looks like an enormous pitcher plant the color of blood, with ferny leaves surrounding its base and many long green tentacles rising from the bottom of the creature. About half way up the plant, four large eyes open on two sides, and stare at you with a malevolent glare. Blood drinker maws are horrible plants from carceri that feed on the blood of living beings, which they trap within their bodies until the thousands of teeth within kill them or they die of blood loss from the wounds inflicted by the fangs. Though they may look mindless, blood drinker maws are reasonably intelligent and are viciously cruel, often torturing their opponents until they finally drop them into their body to receive a slow, painful death. An average blood drinker maw is around 20 feet high, and weighs at least 4 tons. Combat: Blood drinker maws are immobile, and therefore wait in the jungles of carceri for a creature to approach, and lash out with their tentacles, attempting to swallow as many opponents as it can. A blood drinker maw’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Imprisonment (Su): Any creature within a blood drinker maw is surrounded by a spherical wall of force and affected by a dimensional anchor (both caster level 15th) for as long as it remains within the maw. The wall of force does not protect the victim from damage, but it does prevent the victim from attacking the maw’s interior. The dimensional anchor effect cannot be negated in any way, but if a creature manages to destroy the wall of force, the blood drinker maw loses this ability for 24 hours. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the blood drinker maw must hit a creature of up to one size smaller with a tentacle attack. It can attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold, picks up the opponent, transfers it to the mouth as a free action, and can try to swallow the foe on the following round. Swallow Whole (Ex): A blood drinker maw can try to swallow a grabbed opponent by making a successful grapple check. Once inside the plant’s mass, the swallowed creature takes 2d10+10 points of slashing and piercing damage and 1d4 points of Con damage per round from the thousands of tiny fangs in the blood drinker maw’s interior. In addition, a swallowed creature is subject to the maw’s imprisonment ability (see above). A swallowed creature that overcomes imprisonment can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the interior (AC 19). Once the creature exits, the maw’s regenerative capacity closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Huge blood drinker maw’s interior can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents. All-Around Vision (Ex): A blood drinker maw’s multiple eyes allow it to see in all directions at once, bestowing a +4 racial bonus on Spot and Search checks. Opponents gain no flanking bonuses when attacking a blood drinker maw. Regeneration (Ex): Fire deals normal damage to a blood drinker maw. If a blood drinker maw loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d8 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it against the stump. Skills: Blood drinker maws have a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks made in jungle areas.
Maxxx 03-08-06, 06:49 PM	CR for this one is hard and depends more on the location than for other creatures, but 14 could be ok. I just have a question about the Imprisonment ability, how can one destroy the sphere of force, like an ordinary one or is there some other means? As it is written the only way a level 14 party could get around it, would be the disintegrate spell, which I think should not be the only way to get out, as this would mean that some groups would not be able to do anything against the creature after they are swallowed, which from a game mechanical point of view is not that good of an idea. You could perhaps introduce some other possibility to get past the force effect.
x-Wraith-x 03-08-06, 08:06 PM	CR for this one is hard and depends more on the location than for other creatures, but 14 could be ok. I just have a question about the Imprisonment ability, how can one destroy the sphere of force, like an ordinary one or is there some other means? As it is written the only way a level 14 party could get around it, would be the disintegrate spell, which I think should not be the only way to get out, as this would mean that some groups would not be able to do anything against the creature after they are swallowed, which from a game mechanical point of view is not that good of an idea. You could perhaps introduce some other possibility to get past the force effect. Umm....killing the Blood Drinker Maw. :D Well most level 14 parties probably pack at least 1 desintegrate spell or you could just have them find a scroll of it before the encounter if you really want.
Maxxx 03-09-06, 04:17 AM	But you assume that they have someone in the party that can cast disintegrate, which is not always the case. You could, for example have a group with a druid being the sole caster. I just think that there should be some means for a non standard party to deal with it effectively and not having the encounter rely on one spell.
x-Wraith-x 03-09-06, 05:21 PM	But you assume that they have someone in the party that can cast disintegrate, which is not always the case. You could, for example have a group with a druid being the sole caster. I just think that there should be some means for a non standard party to deal with it effectively and not having the encounter rely on one spell. Think of it this way: Barbarian rushes into combat, gets swalowed by the maw and is trapped. Now the party faces the challenge of killing the creature before it eats the barbarian, or even the whole party. I think that sort of an encounter makes for a unique and interesting encounter, but you could be right about that. So what do other people think: Should I change Imprisonment, alter CR, anything?
dok 03-09-06, 06:40 PM	I don't like the Imprisonment (Su) ability. It's rather nonsensical ("It's a plant. That has magical force-innards! Because you can't get free!") and seens written from a very strong meta-game perspective. ("Ha ha! You're swallowed, and you can't cut yourself free, escape with a grapple check, or teleport away!!! All you can do is twiddle your thumbs! HAHAHAHA!") Swallow Whole (Ex): A blood drinker maw can try to swallow a grabbed opponent by making a successful grapple check. Once inside the plant’s mass, the swallowed creature takes 2d10+10 points of slashing and piercing damage and 1d4 points of Con damage per round from the thousands of tiny fangs in the blood drinker maw’s interior. In addition, a swallowed creature is subject to the maw’s imprisonment ability (see above). ...except that a creature afected by the Imprisonment ability can no longer be harmed by the thousands of tiny fangs. So the creature can either imprison someone, or it can hurt them, but it can't do both. Plus, by the wording of Imprison, the creature imprisons anything swallowed whole before it could take damage from the tiny fangs. Stranger still, there doesn't seem to be any way for the creature to voluntarily lower the imprison effect, meaning it can swallow creatures, but it can't actually eat them. A swallowed creature that overcomes imprisonment can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the interior (AC 19). Except, again, Imprisonment means they can't. I hate to point this out, but a creature that's Swallowed Whole is still considered Grappled, even though the monster isn't. Which means that unless they have a weapon in-hand, it's a grapple check to draw one. It also means even if they do have a weapon in-hand that's usable, they're attacking at a -4, they cannot gain the benefits of the Power Attack feat, and they still must overcome the creature's DR 10/magic slashing. All of that means escaping from the stomach isn't easy. If you really want it to be tough, here's what I'd recommend: Dimensional Anchor: This creature, along with anything held or carried, is under the constant effects of a dimensional anchor spell. (caster level 15) This effect can be dispelled, but the creature may reactivate this effect as a free action. Swallow Whole:(as above, except the interior of the creature is exceptionally tough and has DR 10/-. Despite not having a bite attack, it still requires two successful grapple checks to escape from the creature's stomach; the first check moves the character the mouth, while the second allows them to escape. Now, if you really wanted to be cruel, you could add one more ability: Dimensional Redirect: any creature attempting to use a form of extradimenionsal travel within 100 ft. of the Blood Drinker Maw must make a caster level check against the Maw's Spell Resistance. (supernatural abilities use the creature's Hit Dice for caster level in this case) Failure means that the extradimensional travel has been redirected, and the creature is instead transported to the Maw's stomach, suffering the effects of Swallow Whole, listed above. I'd also suggest giving these creatures limited movement of say, 15 ft.? Alternatively, the creature could have the option of being "rooted" (with the Dimensional Anchor/Redirect effects in place) or mobile. (with a 15 ft or 20 ft. movement) Since the default mode would be "rooted", I'd call the ability "Uproot", say the Maw gains a ground speed of 20 ft. and looses it's Dimensional Anchor/Redirect abilities, and require a full-round action to Uproot or Root.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 03-09-06, 06:49 PM	The Spell Resistance seems overly harsh, especially considering that only fire can kill the creature. Speaking of that, you should add in another type of damage or two. Creatures should always have at least two types of energy that bypass their DR. After all, it would be disastrous if one of these things got fire imminuty, the fight was underwater, or some other circumstance.
x-Wraith-x 03-10-06, 05:58 PM	OK so the ability is overpowered. Some interesting editing is to begin.ç Some Possibilities: Edit #1: Remove spell resistance. Acid damage also bypasses regen. Remove the wall of force effect, give the creature a mage armor spell for its interior. or Edit #2: Make it a sort of magnet, making creatures makes saves each turn or be teleported into it (if they fail a save). Remove wall of force effect, spell resistance and acid damage bypasses regen. or Edit #3: Give it a speed or the ability to root/unroot, add in acid damage bypasses regen, remove wall of force effect. or Something else. Personally I would like for it to still not have any movement as the idea is that it would make a unique encounter (hence suggestion #2), but if its not funcional I will change it to work better.