Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darko 03-12-06, 11:56 AM	Allright, this is my first monster. I intend to use it for an elusive recurring villain, but I need to know if it's balanced. I know that that the crunch is probably filled with loopholes and inconsistencies, so I'm kindly asking you to help me out. I also need some help with the fluff, especialy the name (bloodbinder is a placeholder name) and how they arise. I'm thinking of making it a ritual because it would make more sense than the current way, but I don't know how to do it and still have the template available to noncasters. I also have no idea what CR to put on this thing. Anyway, without any further ado: Bloodbinder Before you stands a living corpse, it's frail and pale form making it look like it had all it's blood drained. It wears tattered clothing that appears to have been luxurious once. Despite it's poor looks a spark of malevolent intelligence can be seen in it's eyes. Some people's sole purpose in life is to meddle in the affairs of others. Some of those who take this obsession too far are so entangled in the web of their schemes that not even death itself can set them free. They return from the death to see their current schemes fulfilled, but once they're back they start weaving new plans. The encounter with death only makes more twisted and power-hungry. And exactly the hunger for power over the lives of others is the driving force behind bloodbinders. These monsters lurk in the darkness of well-populated cities where they can find people to manipulate. Although quite capable of stalking in the night of their own, they usualy hide at a concealed place (often in the sewers) and work through their bloodbound minions. Particulary capable bloodbinders have been known to take over entire city councils and run cities to their liking (usualy attempting to somehow seize even more political power). "Bloodbinder" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (hereafter refered to as the base creature. A bloodbinder uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Size and Type: The creature's type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves or skill points. Size is unchanged. Hit Dice: Increase all current and future Hit Dice to d12s. Speed: Same as the base creature. Armor Class: The base creature's natural armor improves by +2. Attack: A bloodbinder retains all the attacks of the base creature. Bloodbinders usualy avoid direct confrontation. Special Attacks: A bloodbinder retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains those described below. Saves have a DC of 10 + 1/2 the bloodbinder's level + bloodbinder's Cha modifier unles noted otherwise. Weakening Touch (Su): Once per round as a standard action a bloodbinder can touch another creature creature to drain it's strength. The target creature is entitled to a fortitude save at +2 DC. On a failed save the target suffers 1d6 strength damage and the bloodbinder gains the same amount as the damage dealt as temporary strength bonus. Bloodbinder loses this temporary strength after 1d4 + bloodbinder's Cha modifier rounds. Weakening touch stacks with spells such as ray of enfeeblement and with itself. Creatures immune to critical hits and ability drain are immune to this attack. Paralyzing Bolt (Su): As a full-round action a bloodbinder can attempt to paralyze a single creature. A bolt of crackling green negative energy strikes the target at succesful ranged touch attack (max range 30 feet). If the target fails it's will save it is paralyzed for 1d4 + bloodbinder's Cha modifier rounds. Creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are immune to Paralyzing Bolt. Bind (Su): As a full-round action a bloodbinder can attempt to feed it's blood to a helples target. This action provokes attacks of opportunity and the bloodbinder loses it's Dex bonus to AC while performing it. If the target fails it's will save at +4 DC it is rendered unconscious for 1d6 rounds. During this period the target's body undergous slight changes but the mind undergoes drastic transformation. When the transformation is finished it arises with the "bloodbound" template (see below). The transformation can be interrupted with a DC 25 heal check or the spells remove curse or break enchantment. If the binding attempt is succesful the target is mentaly bound to the bloodbinder and the bloodbinder loses one point of strength per 4 hit dice of the target (rounded down, minimum 1).The bloodbinder can only regain this loss of strength if the target is slain, in which case the lost strength is regained in 1d10 rounds. If the binding attempt would reduce the bloodbinder's base strength score below 1 it automaticaly fails. The strength loss isn't retroactive, so a bloodbinder doesen't lose additional strength if it's bloodbound minion gains additional hit dice after the bounding. Special Qualities: A bloodbinder retains the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below. Damage Reduction (Su): A bloodbinder has damage reduction 5/magic. A bloodbinder's natural weapons (if it has any) are treated as magic weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Fast Healing (Su): A bloodbinder has fast healing 1. Resistances (Ex): A bloodbinder has resistance to cold 10. Turn Resistance (Ex): A bloodbinder has +4 turn resistance. Switch Body (Su): When a bloodbinder is slain it isn't truly destroyed if it has any bloodbound minions left. It's essence enters the one of it's bloodbound minions (usualy the one with highest strength score - the bloodbinder can choose which minion to enter) and takes control of the body. It then seeks a secluded place to complete the transformation. The presence of the bloodbinder's essence is too much for a mortal body to bear so it starts losing 1d4 constitution per hour. When the constitution score of the body reaches 0 it dies and any remaining bloodbound minions are freed (they lose the "bloodbound" template). 1d3 days later the bloodbinder arises in the new body. It retains it's mental scores (Int, Wis and Cha), class levels and other statistics not tied to the body it previously inhabited (such as natural weapons). It gains the new body's physical scores (Str, Dex and Con) and gains the abilites granted by the new body (such as natural weapons). A bloodbinder can also willingly choose to take over a body of one of it's bloodbound minions but rarely does so because it inolves losing all the other bloodbound minions. The previous body dies, as does the owner of the new body. Spell-like Abilities (Sp): darkness 5/day, charm person 3/day, disguise self 3/day, suggestion 2/day, dimension door 1/day. All are cast at caster loevel 10. Feats and Skills: A bloodbinder gains the alertnes and stealthy feats if it didn't already have them. Alignment: Always evil (any). Challenge Rating: Base creature + ?. Level Adjustment: + ?. Bloodbound Before you stands what appears to be a normal human. Bloodbound are the mentaly enslaved minions of bloodbinders. Their minds have been partialy fused with the mind of their master. Bloodbound retain all their memories but their objectives change to suit their master's. They are telepathicaly linked to the master. They are next to impossible to recognize, their only discerning feature being a small blood-red mark on their chest (mark shape depends on who the master is) which is usualy concealed. Bloodbound can be freed with break enchantment, but the caster needs to suceed on caster level check DC 15 + master's Cha modifier or DC 10 + masters caster level (if it has any, highest if multiple), whichever is higher. "Bloodound" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (hereafter refered to as the base creature. A bloodbound uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Size and Type: Same as base creature. Hit Dice: Same as base creature. Speed: Same as base creature. Armor Class: Same as base creature. Attack: Same as base creature. Special Attacks: Same as base creature. Special Qualities:A bloodbound retains the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below. Darkvision (Ex): A bloodbound has darkvision 60', or the base creature's darkvision (if it has any), whichever is better. Feats and Skills: Bloodbound receive +4 bonus on hide, move silently and bluff. Alignment: Same as master Challenge Rating: Same as base creature +? Level Adjustment: +? OK, I'm really stumped on this template. I want it to remain pretty much indentical to the base creature except that it's a bit more sly, gets darkvision and is linked to it's master. Any suggestions on this one?
dok 03-12-06, 01:25 PM	Weakening Touch (Su): Once per round as a standard action a bloodbinder can touch another creature creature to drain it's strength. The target creature is entitled to a fortitude save at -2 penalty. Why a -2 penalty? Why a penalty at all? I suggest you say that the creature has a +2 Racial bonus to the saving throw DC. On a failed save the target loses 1d6 strength and the bloodbinder gains the same amount as temporary strength bonus. Bloodbinder loses this temporary strength after 1d4 + bloodbinder's Cha modifier rounds, but the target regains strenght normaly (typicaly 1 point per day). Weakening touch stacks with spells such as ray of enfeeblement and with itself. Terminology is important here. The target doesn't "lose" 1d6 strength, he suffers 1d6 strength damage. (damabe always stacks, so that makes the last quoted line unnecessary. The bloodbinder gains an enhancement bonus to strength equal to the damage dealt. (bonuses get named to determine what they stack with; if you want this to stack with bull's strength/belts of strength call it a Profane bonus) [clor=green]Bind (Su): ...If the target fails it's will save at -4 it is rendered unconscious for 1d6 rounds. [/color] Again, I don't like penalties bcause they imply something about the target. A racial bonus to the DC has the exact same effect and is cleaner and neater. The transformation can be interrupted with a DC 25 heal check or the spell remove curse. If there's only 1d6 rounds, that's not a lot of time. Will remove curse work after the transformation is complete? If it's mind-affecting, will protection from evil prevent control? Break enchantment? Also, if the transformation kills the creature (changes their type to Undead) this should really be a fortitude saving throw. If it only affects their mind, then Will is fine. That's all I've got right now. I'll look at the rest later...
Darko 03-12-06, 01:43 PM	What would be the proper wording for changing the DC? Is something along the lines "entitled to will save at +2 DC" be OK? I'm not that knowledgable on the language. I want the strength that the monster gains by the weakening touch to stack with everything (unnamed bonus). Is that overpowered? Would decreasing the duration fix it or do I need to remove stacking? I figure that the monster will need all the strength it can get because it will have sacrificed most of it's own to bind minions. And the bloodbound don't die. They just get a weak template and get their will broken and bound to their master's. I want the transformation to be hard to avoid because if you're helples, well, you're in trouble anyway. I was thinking of having nothing less than break enchantment being strong enough to free them, and even then it would involve a high-ish caster level check. Is this balanced? Also, I'll write more fluff once I get the crunch.
Kyuketsukiouji 03-12-06, 02:21 PM	It gains the new body's physical scores (Int, Wis and Cha) and gains the abilites granted by the new body (such as natural weapons). Obviously, that's "the new body's physical scores (Str, Dex and Con)"
Darko 03-12-06, 03:17 PM	Well that was embarassing :embarrass
Talisman 03-13-06, 04:27 PM	What would be the proper wording for changing the DC? Is something along the lines "entitled to will save at +2 DC" be OK? I'm not that knowledgable on the language. The proper wording would be to simply note that the bloodbinder gains a +2 racial bonus to the Weakening Touch DC. Alternately, give it Ability Focus (weakening touch) as a bonus feat. I want the strength that the monster gains by the weakening touch to stack with everything (unnamed bonus). Is that overpowered? Would decreasing the duration fix it or do I need to remove stacking? I figure that the monster will need all the strength it can get because it will have sacrificed most of it's own to bind minions. As dok said, make it Strength damage. Damage stacks with everything, including itself. It's balanced because there are spells (lesser restoration comes to mind) specifically to heal ability damage. And the bloodbound don't die. They just get a weak template and get their will broken and bound to their master's. I want the transformation to be hard to avoid because if you're helples, well, you're in trouble anyway. I was thinking of having nothing less than break enchantment being strong enough to free them, and even then it would involve a high-ish caster level check. Is this balanced? If they don't die, why are they of the Undead type? By definition, an undead has to have died. If you don't like this, make 'em Monstrous Humanoids or Aberrations...although I don't really see enough weirdness to justify an Aberration. The transformation can be interrupted with a DC 25 heal check or the spell remove curse. If there's only 1d6 rounds, that's not a lot of time. Will remove curse work after the transformation is complete? If it's mind-affecting, will protection from evil prevent control? Break enchantment? Also, if the transformation kills the creature (changes their type to Undead) this should really be a fortitude saving throw. If it only affects their mind, then Will is fine. Good points and I second them; however, I disagree with the concept that it has to be a Fort save. Plenty of negative-energy effects (that can potentially kill you!) require Will saves. The inflict wounds spells, for example. However, I could see either Fort or Will here.
Darko 03-14-06, 10:31 AM	I've updated the main post. Is it OK? What do you thing of the Switch Body special quality? Is it clear enough? And what CR and LA would be appropriate for the bloodbinder and the bloodbound?
Talisman 03-16-06, 10:38 AM	Switch body looks good. I'd say CR about a +2. It's too stout for a +1, but it feels a little light for a +2. LA about +5 or +6, and keep in mind that, should you allow someone to play this nasty, they'll be almost impossible to kill. OK, I'm really stumped on this template. I want it to remain pretty much indentical to the base creature except that it's a bit more sly, gets darkvision and is linked to it's master. Any suggestions on this one? How do you mean "a bit more sly?" Smarter? More bestial? Bonus to Int or Wis? Perhaps Uncanny Dodge or Sneak Attack? How do you mean "linked to its master?" Can always find its master? Master can find it? Master can control it? As it stands, I'd say +1 LA and no plus to CR.
Darko 03-16-06, 11:07 AM	A link to the master would be some sort of a telepathic link trough which the master can order his minions around. I'm not sure about how such things behave in antimagic or magic-dead areas, but I figure that even if the conection is supressed the bloodbound should behave acording to their last orders (while using their head, they suffer no Int or Wis loss, after all). And I want them to be the kind that skulks in the shadows and snatches people at night in back alleys. One purpose of this would offcourse be filling their ranks, but I want them to have a reason to do it other than enslaving. I was thinking that perhaps the master could gain nourishment when his minions feed on blood, but I feel tha this may bring my monster to ressemble a vampire a bit too much. What's your opinion? As for CR of the Bloodbinder, what could I do to bring it to a solid +2? I'm thiking of increasing some ability scores, especialy strength (since it's most needed). Would +4 Str and +2 Int be good? And do I need to provide an additional way of locating the bloodbound or is standard divination enough? I'm thinking of using this monster on my players and I want it to return two or three times, but I want it to be killable (albeit with difficulty) once they figure out what's going on.
Talisman 03-16-06, 11:34 AM	A link to the master would be some sort of a telepathic link trough which the master can order his minions around. I'm not sure about how such things behave in antimagic or magic-dead areas, but I figure that even if the conection is supressed the bloodbound should behave acording to their last orders (while using their head, they suffer no Int or Wis loss, after all). I'd suggest adding a special quality to both the bloodbinder and the bloodbound, to wit: the bloodbinder can command the bloodbound at will, as a free action. This takes the form of a suggestion or dominate person spell (your choice, depending on how much free will these things have) that the bloodbound gets no save against. Antimagic areas ought to suppress this ability, but those are few and far between. Sure, a stubborn bloodbound might just stay there...until the master orders his other 12 minions to drag the rebel out and be punished. A lot depends on how much the bloodbound are helpless puppets and how much they're semi-independent (sort of like lesser vampires). And I want them to be the kind that skulks in the shadows and snatches people at night in back alleys. One purpose of this would offcourse be filling their ranks, but I want them to have a reason to do it other than enslaving. I was thinking that perhaps the master could gain nourishment when his minions feed on blood, but I feel tha this may bring my monster to ressemble a vampire a bit too much. What's your opinion? Why blood? Since they're basically identical to the base creature, they still have to...you know...eat. Maybe the bloodbound "degrade" over time, so that after 6 months or so a bloodbound falls over dead. This could be handled as a Str or Con drain at 1 or 2 points per month, non-recoverable without powerful magic. This gives the bloodbinder a reason to replenish his supply of minions failry regularly. I'd suggest a +2 to Str, Dex and Con to reinforce their powers as sly, sneaky body-snatchers. Maybe Improved Grapple as a bonus feat, since it sounds like the kidnap rather than kill. As for CR of the Bloodbinder, what could I do to bring it to a solid +2? I'm thiking of increasing some ability scores, especialy strength (since it's most needed). Would +4 Str and +2 Int be good? Ability boosts are always good; exactly what stats depends on what the monster does. +4 Str and +2 Int looks pretty good; maybe +2 Cha, since it powers most undead special abilities. Also, Fast Healing 1 isn't going to do a lot. I'd bump it to 2 or 3. And do I need to provide an additional way of locating the bloodbound or is standard divination enough? I'm thinking of using this monster on my players and I want it to return two or three times, but I want it to be killable (albeit with difficulty) once they figure out what's going on. Do your PCs make use of lots of divination? Mine don't. Make a point of drawing a link between the bloodbinder and his minions. Maybe they all have blood-red eyes, or theyr hands shrivel into claws in the same way, or whatever. If someone uses a part of the bloodbinder's corpse as a divination focus, I'd give 'em a bonus when divining the location of the minions. Maybe an eye.
Darko 03-16-06, 12:18 PM	I'm thinking of making the bloodbound semi-independent to make them harder to tell apart from normal people. The idea is that the bloodbinder can use them to manipulate communities (by binding council members etc.). Your idea of having the minions change over time is kinda neat because it would make the bloodbinder change it's minions frequently (say, a bloodbound would look normal for 1d3 months). And I realised that bloodbound drinking blood isn't such a neat idea. They should probably bring the kidnaped people to their master so he can feast on them. Would this resemble a vampire too closely? And I asume that the suggested ability score increases of the bloodbound would make for a solid +1LA. What about CR? +1/2?
Talisman 03-20-06, 03:02 PM	I'm thinking of making the bloodbound semi-independent to make them harder to tell apart from normal people. The idea is that the bloodbinder can use them to manipulate communities (by binding council members etc.). Your idea of having the minions change over time is kinda neat because it would make the bloodbinder change it's minions frequently (say, a bloodbound would look normal for 1d3 months). And I realised that bloodbound drinking blood isn't such a neat idea. They should probably bring the kidnaped people to their master so he can feast on them. Would this resemble a vampire too closely? It's a little vampiric, but so what? There are lots of critters that feed on blood. It might even throw the PCs off the trail a little. PC: "Ah ha! The master vampire! Try a little garlic!" Bloodbinder: "What are you going on about?" And I asume that the suggested ability score increases of the bloodbound would make for a solid +1LA. What about CR? +1/2? Actually, I was speaking of the bloodbinder. If you give the bloodbound stat mods, I'd say +1 LA. I don't think there's enough there to warrant a CR boost, however.