Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dok 06-30-06, 01:14 AM	I'm working on a few monsters for my next game, and wondering how accurate the CR is on these creatures. I'm also wondering about some technical issues. 1.) Should an Orc with 3 levels in Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#orcParagon) be CR 3? It seems like a weak CR 3 to me, closer to the CR 2... 2.) How much of a CR adjustment is a Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) worth? If I take the Orc Paragon 3 above, add 1 fighter level, (+1 CR) and a Major Red Dragon bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#dragonRed), are the bonuses from the bloodline worth a full +1 CR? 3.) Are racial paragon levels treated as "racial HD" for effects like the saving throw DC for a Half-Dragon's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfDragon.htm) breath weapon? What about levels in the Half-Dragon racial Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfDragonParag on) class? So these questions aren't totally abstract, let me offer two examples to work from: Burning Blood Orcs Orc Paragon 3, Fighter 1, Red Dragon major bloodline Medium Humanoid [orc] Hit Dice: 4d10+4 (26 hp) Initiative: +0 Speed: 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor) Armor Class: 16 (+4 armor, +2 shield) Touch 10, Flatfooted 14 Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+9 Attack: Longsword +10 melee (1d8+5, 19-20/x2) Full Attack: Longsword +10 melee (1d8+5, 19-20/x2) Space/Reach: 5 ft./ 5 ft. Special Attacks: Elf-slayer Special Qualities: Fire Resistance 5, Darkvision 90 ft. Saves: +4 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will Abilities: Strength 20 Dexterity 11 Constitution 12 Intelligence 8 Wisdom 7 Charisma 6 Skills: Bluff +0, Intimidate +0, Listen +0, Spot +2 Feats: Blindfight, Iron Will, Alertness (B), Weapon Focus: Longsword (B) Challenge Rating: 3? 4? 5? Equipment: Masterwork Scale Mail, Heavy Steel Shield, Longsword Alignment: Chaotic Evil (Yes, he's under-equipped, but not much) Elf Slayer (Ex): Burning Blood Orcs gain +2 damage against elves. Burning Blood Orcs have a +2 racial bonus to Bluff checks. Haggrish of the first blood Half-Dragon (Red) Orc Paragon3, Half Dragon Paragon 3 Medium Dragon (Orc) Hit Dice: 6d12+12 (51 hp) Initiative: +0 Speed: 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor) Armor Class: 23 (+5 natural armor, +8 armor) Touch 10, Flatfooted 23 Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+14 Attack: Claw +14 melee (1d4+8) or Masterwork Greatsword +15 melee (2d6+12, 19-20/x2) Full Attack: 2 Claws +14 melee (1d4+8) or Masterwork Greatsword +15/+10 melee (2d6+12,19-20/x2), and Bite +9 melee (1d6+4) Space/Reach: 5 ft. / 5 ft. Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Elf Slayer Special Qualities: Darkvision 90 ft., low-light vision, immune to sleep/paralysis, immune to fire Saves: +8 Fortitude, +2 Reflex, +3 Will Abilities: Strength 27 Dexterity 11 Constitution 14 Intelligence 10 Wisdom 8 Charisma 8 Skills: Climb +10*, Intimidate +9, Jump +9*, Listen +9, Spot +9, Survival +5 Feats: Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Awaken Frightful Presence (Draconomicon) Challenge Rating: 5-8? Equipment: Masterwork Greatsword, Masterwork Full Plate Armor Alignment: Chaotic Evil (again, under-equipped) Breath Weapon: 30 ft. cone of fire, 6d8 fire damage, Reflex DC 12 (15?) for half, usable 3/day, but must wait 1d4 rounds between uses. Elf Slayer (Ex): Haggrish gains +2 damage against elves. I'm not looking for a full PEACH analysis here; I'm just trying to guage if the CR is right, or if it's too high.
runestar 06-30-06, 02:26 AM	1) The orc paragon is definitely stronger than the warrior class. Though I am suprised that the orc paragon does not get rage, while the half-orc paragon does. :rolleyes: I feel its on par with the fighter class. So yeah, cr3 would be apt. 2) From my understanding, bloodlines do not incur a cr adjustment, since you lose some class features to access them. The losses should arguably outweigh the gains, though I am unsure how accurate that claim might be. 3) No, despite all their flavour, they are still class lvs. Not much experience with them though.