Brain Mole: WTF?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Brain Mole: WTF?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
R.M.G.C.L.F.
02-05-04, 10:03 PM I have noticed some problems with the brain mole as written. First, although it is discribed as "nearly blind", the brain mole has no diminished ability to see, possessing low-light vision (since it's not specified otherwise), and a total spot bonus of +6. Secondly, they have a disease attack which is not listed in the special attack block. Third, they have the creature type animal despite the fact that they possess spell-like abilities.
Kojiro James
02-05-04, 10:51 PM Chill. Psionics 3.5 is coming out. They might correct their buggered mistakes on the monster in it.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
02-05-04, 10:55 PM Okay. Calming...calming...calmed.

*pause*

AHHH! THERE EXIST PSIONIC "MIND" POWERS THAT USE STRENGTH AS A KEY ABILITY!

*flies into another psionically induced panic attack*
Kojiro James
02-05-04, 11:00 PM ...Uh... mental strength? :twitch:
R.M.G.C.L.F.
02-05-04, 11:08 PM An entire friggin' discipline! Psychometabolism is madness! MADNESS!
Tevish Szat
02-05-04, 11:22 PM Yah, psionics are crazy. my DM, when using them, realocated the Str dicipline to Wis, the Dex dicipline to Int and the Con dicipline to Cha.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
02-05-04, 11:37 PM I'd actually subtstitute the strength ones with charisma (what with it being strength of personality and all), dexterity with intelligence (dexterity is how quickly and carefully you manipulate objects, intelligence is the same for information) and con with wisdom (wisdom being your ability to see through illusions, resist mind-control, etc.). Also those are the corresponding abilities for the astral body in the spell astral projection.
Tevish Szat
02-05-04, 11:43 PM Originally posted by R.M.G.C.L.F.
I'd actually subtstitute the strength ones with charisma (what with it being strength of personality and all), dexterity with intelligence (dexterity is how quickly and carefully you manipulate objects, intelligence is the same for information) and con with wisdom (wisdom being your ability to see through illusions, resist mind-control, etc.). Also those are the corresponding abilities for the astral body in the spell astral projection. i'll mention that... But i'm going to try to run a planescape-style campagin with no psionics, so it will be a while.
Dr_Draco
02-06-04, 12:14 AM Well, one can argue that psionics are of the mind and body. An Eastern way of looking at it, but psionics as presented in 3.0e does have a psuedo-Indian influence to it. With the crystal focus and dorjes and such.

Anyhow, as far as I know 3.5 Psi won't be changing that the six abilities are used for powers (don't quote me though, beyond the 2 Dragon previews and Bruce's statement of two brand new Base/Core classes, not much is known), however Bruce Cordell did say MAD won't be an issue anymore. Wonder what that means...

Anyhow, as for the Brain Mole, it will probably be fixed in 3.5. As for the Animal type, I believe that was intential (the Su-Monster from the PsiHB Web Enhancement also has the Animal type). I think it had something to do with the fact that the Sp-abilities were "Psionics." I think 3.5 will most likely make them Magical Beasts (as they should be).

http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/psion.TXT Dr. D http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/monk.TXT
R.M.G.C.L.F.
02-06-04, 12:15 AM Either that or get a different special ability descriptor for psionic powers, like (ps) or (pi).
Dr_Draco
02-06-04, 12:23 AM True. There was mention of psionic creatures having Psi-Like Abilities. I honestly think it's just a fancy name to make things easier for DMs using Psionics are Different. But then again, having a fourth type of ability descriptor would be cool :cool:.

http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/psion.TXT Dr. D http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/monk.TXT
da chicken
02-06-04, 12:44 AM Originally posted by R.M.G.C.L.F.
An entire friggin' discipline! Psychometabolism is madness! MADNESS!

Indeed, MAD is one of the key arguments against the balance of the current system.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
02-06-04, 06:14 AM Heck, I normally use the (ps) descriptor instead of the (sp) descriptor for psionic abilities in monsters I create. I've also created a few of my own, like
(me): Mental ability, similar to extrordinary in its being non-magical but is retained after polymorphing.
(di): Divine ability, akin to supernatural but is a form of diety magic that cannot be repressed by an anti-magic field.
The_Fan
02-06-04, 09:56 AM Yeah, psionics is pretty influenced by Indian philosophy. In particular, the discipline of the Yogis. In fact, psionics are heavily recommended in an OA campaign, where the psions are instead referred to as "Yogi Mystics."

Given that, having psionic abilities based on physical attributes makes perfect sense to me.
Incenjucar
02-06-04, 10:17 AM Logically, it should be 'Supernatural Beasts', with [Magical] or [Psionic] subtypes (In a really realistic system, the type system would be seriously extended, but that would make the stats tedious)
Dr_Draco
02-06-04, 11:48 AM Originally posted by Incenjucar
Logically, it should be 'Supernatural Beasts', with [Magical] or [Psionic] subtypes (In a really realistic system, the type system would be seriously extended, but that would make the stats tedious) No argument there. It's all semantics, though, when you really get down to it. "Magical Beast," "Psionic Beast," "Supernatural Beast," "Really Ugly Beast with Weird Powers."

http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/psion.TXT Dr. D http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/monk.TXT
RhoxandRoll
02-06-04, 01:06 PM Ugh. 3.0/5 psionics is emetic, it is just glorified magic. If anyone remembers the second edition psionics book, it was far beyond the 3rd edition version.

It seems like the new psionics handbook was made in the heyday of 3rd edition's madness with fantasy that looked like superhero comics. Look at the art...:headexplo I'm sorry, I just can't take it!

I agree, pyschometabolism is indeed mad.

Gar.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
02-06-04, 03:12 PM The thing that 3.0 psionics remind me most of is the mutant powers in X-Men (and maybe even superheroes in general). I mean their's no way that rapidly altering your body mass and biochemistry a-la Mystique can be purely biological, and likewise Nightcrawler's teleportation and Cyclops's eye beam remind me more of 3.0 psionics than physical mutations.
Dr_Draco
02-06-04, 04:15 PM Originally posted by RhoxandRoll
Ugh. 3.0/5 psionics is emetic, it is just glorified magic. If anyone remembers the second edition psionics book, it was far beyond the 3rd edition version.No, no...

2nd Ed. Psionics is broken and overpowered. Nice concept with it being completely different, too much power. Just as emetic as 3.0 in my opinion.

3rd Ed. Psionics has broken combos and is very underpowered (PsyWar and Mind's Eye being the exception to the underpowered part). Mechanics are the similar to magic, more workable for DMs timid about using psionics. MAD, Psi-Combat, and other minor problems kill it. (How do you know 3.5 Psi will be horrible, the update isn't even out yet? Especially considering the XPsiHB is supposedly gonna get an overhaul to make the Druid and Ranger look like nothing happened (Rumor, not fact (yet?)).)

As for the whole superhero-comic thing with the art... Umm... the 3.0e PsiHB isn't the only one like that. Most of the art in 3.0/.5e has that feel (ELH, PHB, Complete Warrior, Minis Handbook... All comic-booking to me).

Ok, this debate shouldn't be for this thread (sorry for derailing it a bit R.M.G.C.L.F.).
R.M.G.C.L.F.
02-06-04, 04:35 PM It would have been nice if they could have at least started by making the brain mole a beast. After all, it was 3.0 and have you ever read about a brain mole in an issue of national geographic? I highly doubt it.

PS: If you have, please tell me the issue number, cause learning about real-life creatures with psychic powers would be a lot of fun.
Ob_Deamon
02-06-04, 05:57 PM Shouldn't this be on the Psionics board?
R.M.G.C.L.F.
02-06-04, 06:32 PM Originally posted by Ob_Deamon
Shouldn't this be on the Psionics board?
I'm not really sure. On one hand it was a psionic creature, but on the other hand it was a monster and I've seen several psionic creature's posted in the monster lair before so I went with this board.
Contrast
02-06-04, 10:43 PM Is this Psionincs Handbook 3.5 going to be a new hardcover book or a web enhancement?
Kojiro James
02-06-04, 11:24 PM A new hardcover.
Contrast
02-07-04, 09:37 AM Thankyou
Dr_Draco
02-07-04, 02:35 PM Originally posted by Ob_Deamon
Shouldn't this be on the Psionics board? Actually, the original topic is valid on either this board or the Psionics Board. Since it is about a monster that happens to have psionics.

Originally posted by R.M.G.C.L.F.
It would have been nice if they could have at least started by making the brain mole a beast. After all, it was 3.0 and have you ever read about a brain mole in an issue of national geographic? I highly doubt it.Nope, but I'm pretty sure that Dinosaurs (Beasts) have ;).

Brain Moles and Su Monsters shouldn't have been created as Animals, but that's what they are until 3.5--hopefully--changes that.

http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/psion.TXT Dr. D http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/monk.TXT
Oberoni
02-07-04, 04:05 PM Originally posted by da chicken
Indeed, MAD is one of the key arguments against the balance of the current system.

Hee hee.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
R.M.G.C.L.F. 02-05-04, 10:03 PM	I have noticed some problems with the brain mole as written. First, although it is discribed as "nearly blind", the brain mole has no diminished ability to see, possessing low-light vision (since it's not specified otherwise), and a total spot bonus of +6. Secondly, they have a disease attack which is not listed in the special attack block. Third, they have the creature type animal despite the fact that they possess spell-like abilities.
Kojiro James 02-05-04, 10:51 PM	Chill. Psionics 3.5 is coming out. They might correct their buggered mistakes on the monster in it.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 02-05-04, 10:55 PM	Okay. Calming...calming...calmed. pause AHHH! THERE EXIST PSIONIC "MIND" POWERS THAT USE STRENGTH AS A KEY ABILITY! flies into another psionically induced panic attack
Kojiro James 02-05-04, 11:00 PM	...Uh... mental strength? :twitch:
R.M.G.C.L.F. 02-05-04, 11:08 PM	An entire friggin' discipline! Psychometabolism is madness! MADNESS!
Tevish Szat 02-05-04, 11:22 PM	Yah, psionics are crazy. my DM, when using them, realocated the Str dicipline to Wis, the Dex dicipline to Int and the Con dicipline to Cha.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 02-05-04, 11:37 PM	I'd actually subtstitute the strength ones with charisma (what with it being strength of personality and all), dexterity with intelligence (dexterity is how quickly and carefully you manipulate objects, intelligence is the same for information) and con with wisdom (wisdom being your ability to see through illusions, resist mind-control, etc.). Also those are the corresponding abilities for the astral body in the spell astral projection.
Tevish Szat 02-05-04, 11:43 PM	Originally posted by R.M.G.C.L.F. I'd actually subtstitute the strength ones with charisma (what with it being strength of personality and all), dexterity with intelligence (dexterity is how quickly and carefully you manipulate objects, intelligence is the same for information) and con with wisdom (wisdom being your ability to see through illusions, resist mind-control, etc.). Also those are the corresponding abilities for the astral body in the spell astral projection. i'll mention that... But i'm going to try to run a planescape-style campagin with no psionics, so it will be a while.
Dr_Draco 02-06-04, 12:14 AM	Well, one can argue that psionics are of the mind and body. An Eastern way of looking at it, but psionics as presented in 3.0e does have a psuedo-Indian influence to it. With the crystal focus and dorjes and such. Anyhow, as far as I know 3.5 Psi won't be changing that the six abilities are used for powers (don't quote me though, beyond the 2 Dragon previews and Bruce's statement of two brand new Base/Core classes, not much is known), however Bruce Cordell did say MAD won't be an issue anymore. Wonder what that means... Anyhow, as for the Brain Mole, it will probably be fixed in 3.5. As for the Animal type, I believe that was intential (the Su-Monster from the PsiHB Web Enhancement also has the Animal type). I think it had something to do with the fact that the Sp-abilities were "Psionics." I think 3.5 will most likely make them Magical Beasts (as they should be). http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/psion.TXT Dr. D http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/monk.TXT
R.M.G.C.L.F. 02-06-04, 12:15 AM	Either that or get a different special ability descriptor for psionic powers, like (ps) or (pi).
Dr_Draco 02-06-04, 12:23 AM	True. There was mention of psionic creatures having Psi-Like Abilities. I honestly think it's just a fancy name to make things easier for DMs using Psionics are Different. But then again, having a fourth type of ability descriptor would be cool :cool:. http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/psion.TXT Dr. D http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/monk.TXT
da chicken 02-06-04, 12:44 AM	Originally posted by R.M.G.C.L.F. An entire friggin' discipline! Psychometabolism is madness! MADNESS! Indeed, MAD is one of the key arguments against the balance of the current system.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 02-06-04, 06:14 AM	Heck, I normally use the (ps) descriptor instead of the (sp) descriptor for psionic abilities in monsters I create. I've also created a few of my own, like (me): Mental ability, similar to extrordinary in its being non-magical but is retained after polymorphing. (di): Divine ability, akin to supernatural but is a form of diety magic that cannot be repressed by an anti-magic field.
The_Fan 02-06-04, 09:56 AM	Yeah, psionics is pretty influenced by Indian philosophy. In particular, the discipline of the Yogis. In fact, psionics are heavily recommended in an OA campaign, where the psions are instead referred to as "Yogi Mystics." Given that, having psionic abilities based on physical attributes makes perfect sense to me.
Incenjucar 02-06-04, 10:17 AM	Logically, it should be 'Supernatural Beasts', with [Magical] or [Psionic] subtypes (In a really realistic system, the type system would be seriously extended, but that would make the stats tedious)
Dr_Draco 02-06-04, 11:48 AM	Originally posted by Incenjucar Logically, it should be 'Supernatural Beasts', with [Magical] or [Psionic] subtypes (In a really realistic system, the type system would be seriously extended, but that would make the stats tedious) No argument there. It's all semantics, though, when you really get down to it. "Magical Beast," "Psionic Beast," "Supernatural Beast," "Really Ugly Beast with Weird Powers." http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/psion.TXT Dr. D http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/monk.TXT
RhoxandRoll 02-06-04, 01:06 PM	Ugh. 3.0/5 psionics is emetic, it is just glorified magic. If anyone remembers the second edition psionics book, it was far beyond the 3rd edition version. It seems like the new psionics handbook was made in the heyday of 3rd edition's madness with fantasy that looked like superhero comics. Look at the art...:headexplo I'm sorry, I just can't take it! I agree, pyschometabolism is indeed mad. Gar.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 02-06-04, 03:12 PM	The thing that 3.0 psionics remind me most of is the mutant powers in X-Men (and maybe even superheroes in general). I mean their's no way that rapidly altering your body mass and biochemistry a-la Mystique can be purely biological, and likewise Nightcrawler's teleportation and Cyclops's eye beam remind me more of 3.0 psionics than physical mutations.
Dr_Draco 02-06-04, 04:15 PM	Originally posted by RhoxandRoll Ugh. 3.0/5 psionics is emetic, it is just glorified magic. If anyone remembers the second edition psionics book, it was far beyond the 3rd edition version.No, no... 2nd Ed. Psionics is broken and overpowered. Nice concept with it being completely different, too much power. Just as emetic as 3.0 in my opinion. 3rd Ed. Psionics has broken combos and is very underpowered (PsyWar and Mind's Eye being the exception to the underpowered part). Mechanics are the similar to magic, more workable for DMs timid about using psionics. MAD, Psi-Combat, and other minor problems kill it. (How do you know 3.5 Psi will be horrible, the update isn't even out yet? Especially considering the XPsiHB is supposedly gonna get an overhaul to make the Druid and Ranger look like nothing happened (Rumor, not fact (yet?)).) As for the whole superhero-comic thing with the art... Umm... the 3.0e PsiHB isn't the only one like that. Most of the art in 3.0/.5e has that feel (ELH, PHB, Complete Warrior, Minis Handbook... All comic-booking to me). Ok, this debate shouldn't be for this thread (sorry for derailing it a bit R.M.G.C.L.F.).
R.M.G.C.L.F. 02-06-04, 04:35 PM	It would have been nice if they could have at least started by making the brain mole a beast. After all, it was 3.0 and have you ever read about a brain mole in an issue of national geographic? I highly doubt it. PS: If you have, please tell me the issue number, cause learning about real-life creatures with psychic powers would be a lot of fun.
Ob_Deamon 02-06-04, 05:57 PM	Shouldn't this be on the Psionics board?
R.M.G.C.L.F. 02-06-04, 06:32 PM	Originally posted by Ob_Deamon Shouldn't this be on the Psionics board? I'm not really sure. On one hand it was a psionic creature, but on the other hand it was a monster and I've seen several psionic creature's posted in the monster lair before so I went with this board.
Contrast 02-06-04, 10:43 PM	Is this Psionincs Handbook 3.5 going to be a new hardcover book or a web enhancement?
Kojiro James 02-06-04, 11:24 PM	A new hardcover.
Contrast 02-07-04, 09:37 AM	Thankyou
Dr_Draco 02-07-04, 02:35 PM	Originally posted by Ob_Deamon Shouldn't this be on the Psionics board? Actually, the original topic is valid on either this board or the Psionics Board. Since it is about a monster that happens to have psionics. Originally posted by R.M.G.C.L.F. It would have been nice if they could have at least started by making the brain mole a beast. After all, it was 3.0 and have you ever read about a brain mole in an issue of national geographic? I highly doubt it.Nope, but I'm pretty sure that Dinosaurs (Beasts) have ;). Brain Moles and Su Monsters shouldn't have been created as Animals, but that's what they are until 3.5--hopefully--changes that. http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/psion.TXT Dr. D http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/monk.TXT
Oberoni 02-07-04, 04:05 PM	Originally posted by da chicken Indeed, MAD is one of the key arguments against the balance of the current system. Hee hee.