Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrimsonPhoenix 05-23-04, 10:45 PM	I'm thinking about playing a brass dragon for a PC in an upcoming campaign starting at 14th. I only noticed one problem...no alternate form. I was wondering how I could play around this...it's not a good idea for a dragon to walk around a town if he wants to stay alive. Are there any other ways to travel through populated areas in disguise? (I dont want to rely on the rest of my party all the time while in towns) My original idea was to buy massive amounts of Polymorph scrolls and use those, but the caster level check (DC 9) with only a +1 modifier isn't very good odds for a 700gp scroll (I will be needing to buy these 8-10 at a time for a few weeks travel). The cost is also a problem. I was thinking that I could have someone in my home country teach me to use these scrolls in particular, since that particular country is home to a huge population of dragons (as well as humans) and dragons are well-liked there (metallic dragons anyway)...but I'm getting tired of having to totally change the rules to make something work. Is there any other way?
Ack'noth Necrom 05-24-04, 01:53 AM	Well the first thing ill say is talk to your DM about it. He/she should be willing to work with you on that subject. I would let a player get rid of one of the brass dragons specail abilities (maybe the speak with animals one?) and replace it with alternate form but thats me. If he/she isnt willing to do that and you really want alternate form Ild suggest thinking about changing your idea to a silver, gold, or an older bronze dragon. This way you can still play the dragon but its just a different type of dragon. Another option is spending a bunch of money for a polymorph at will item, lets see that would cost you: Polymorph (4th level spell) X Caster Level 7 X 2000 gp = 56,000 gp X 2 for being unslotted = 112,000 gp If you want it to be continuous: Polymorph (4th level spell) X Caster Level 7 X 2000 gp = 56,000 gp X 2 for being continuous = 112,000 gp X 2 for being unslotted = 224,000 gp From a players point of view I have to say that I dont think alternate form is such a big deal. My silver dragon just hit adulthood last month and I have not used alternate form once in the 100 game years hes been around but then again I do play Shaz in a very accepting world Just something to think about i guess, if i come up with more ill let ya know.
Derren S. 05-24-04, 03:03 AM	Or take some druid levels. While you can't assume human form it is good enough to travel in human lands.
sparkster4242 05-24-04, 04:46 AM	Hat of Disguise. in 3.0, you might run into problems with the weight limit, but looking human should be do-able. 3.5 is a little trickier, since it doesnt allow you to change your type; your new form would still need to be of type Dragon. you could make yerself a half-dragon ... if the spell allowed templates. hmm, i suppose you could change into a small dragon who walks upright; that should at least allow you to use doors, stairways, that sort of thing.
CrimsonPhoenix 05-24-04, 01:14 PM	Another option is spending a bunch of money for a polymorph at will item, lets see that would cost you: Polymorph (4th level spell) X Caster Level 7 X 2000 gp = 56,000 gp X 2 for being unslotted = 112,000 gp If you want it to be continuous: Polymorph (4th level spell) X Caster Level 7 X 2000 gp = 56,000 gp X 2 for being continuous = 112,000 gp X 2 for being unslotted = 224,000 gp I'm a little unaware of item rules so could you explain how that works and where you got those formulas? Also, what type of item would this be? Could it be a rod or something or must it be something worn? My DM is plenty willing to modify things and the money isnt a big deal...for something like that he would probably let me have the item (using alternate form restrictions). Also...a few more things: 1. Would it make sense to have a brass dragon with alternate form instead of other abilities of that type...and if so... 2. How would I incorporate these changes. Would replacing Speak with Animals with Alternate Form be balanced? It seems to me like alternate form is way too good in comparison...but maybe not. 3. How could I change the SS style class to make this work...alternate form is usually given over seperate levels whereas the speak with animals is all at once and rather early. (I'm using the classes out of Dragon mag #320 for reference)
CrimsonPhoenix 05-24-04, 08:54 PM	Sorry ignore the above question...i was being stupid again. Thx for the help everyone, I think I'm going with a rod of alternate form (as the dragon ability). I considered alternate form to be only a 3rd level spell since it's obviously far more restricted, and limited the rod to 3x per day. The overall cost came out to be 26k (I think...) One question about this tho...me and my DM couldn't figure it out for sure. When a rod is made as a spell activating device, what choices does the user get to make and what choices does the creator get to make. For example, with the above polymorph (alternate form) rod...would the user decide what the new form would be (within limits of course)? Or would the rod only change you to a certain preset form, such as a brown haired, blue eyed human or whatever you would have it be (decided by creator when spell is cast into rod)? I know this should be posted in DMG forum but since this thread is already here I'll go ahead and post here. Once again thx for help.
Amaron Blackthorn 05-27-04, 03:27 PM	Why a brass dragon?
Mahungee 05-27-04, 04:17 PM	If you mean spell trigger then the activator gets to make the decisions. but since its a rod and not a wand you can design it anyway you want; :D (though its a weird rod that is spell trigger :D)
Moonstonedragon 05-27-04, 07:16 PM	Just run around and be free as your true form, everyone loves metallic dragons, you'll get alot of hugs and love
CrimsonPhoenix 05-27-04, 11:46 PM	Does anyone know what type of item such a polymorph thing would likely be? Should it be a ring, rod, etc...(whatever sounds most logical...I don't know...)?
CrimsonPhoenix 05-28-04, 02:56 PM	Why a brass dragon? The answer to that is simple...I want to play a dragon that is old enough to be adventuring (I mean...a gold wyrmling is just as smart as a young brass, but that doesnt mean he is mature enough). It's kinda hard to RP the attitude of a young child. The brass is plenty more mature at that point, and I also like the spells and secondary breath weapon (something WoTC forgot to balance....Heighten Breath + 22 Con = 30ft cone DC 27 Will or fall asleep....infinite use basically...). The only problem is it does take a little of the fun out of playing a dragon when you are by far the weakest metallic dragon there is, but it will still be fun. On a side note, this is my 5th dragon PC (kind of a recurring theme I would think). We are starting at lvl 14 so I have access to spells (which is very nice for scrolls, even with the necessary caster level check). Also, I'm stuck between having the Alternate Form item as a rod or something slotted.
WarRabbit 05-28-04, 06:05 PM	If you choose a cloak/cape mantle item of continuous (or unlimited) polymorph that was command word activiated the cost would be: 4th level spell x 7th level caster x 1800 (command word) x 2 (duration 1 min/level) = 100,800gp If you chose a slot which didn't have a 'transformation' affinity like a cloak does then the price would be 50% higher than above, and an unslotted item would be 100% higher than above. A wand would cost: 4x7x750 = 21,000gp for 50 charges It depends on how often and for how long you'll need to be in human form. If you think you'll be hanging out in cities and want to appear as a human, go with the cloak. If you'll only occasionally need the human form, go with the wand.
CrimsonPhoenix 05-28-04, 09:31 PM	This isn't as important... but would it make sense for a dragon to be given (by another dragon) a cloak of all item types. Dragons can use them of course, but it seems a little unlikely, especially coming from another dragon. I know I'm probably being annoying because the cloak is probably the correct way to go, but is there nothing that would make more sense to be given between dragons? Basic story here: The brass dragon I'm playing is being fostered by an old gold dragon who is the rough equivalent of a king in his nation. The brass recieves this item (be it a scepter, wand, cloak, whatever) from the "king" so that he can more easily associate with the humans of the city (since brass doesn't have alternate form). Since he was raised to this age by a gold dragon, his attitude would more closely reflect a gold's point of view, and he would feel more at ease in a humanoid form when amongst humanoids (even though the humans of the country know about the draconic nature of the king, and the king's "son"). The world we are playing in is a custom one and this kingdom is kind of a "magnet" for metallic dragons, who make up a good amount of the population. The dragons and humanoid races living there get along well, and even the average human peasant would have at least some contact with dragons during his/her lifetime. Story sound reasonable? Thx for the help so far by the way...
WarRabbit 05-29-04, 03:34 PM	Ok, I see what you're saying...I"d go with a ring fit for a dragon. It's easy to wear for a dragon and you don't have to carry it in a container like you would with a rod or wand. Edit: Also, rings can have any power stored in it without the 'affinity' penalty so you're looking at the 100k cost for an unlimited/continous polymorph ring.
Karui_Kage 05-31-04, 01:36 PM	Just wait outside town while anything happens inside. *shrug* may not be the best solution, but role-playing wise, whatcha gonna do? Just go hunt down a gazelle or something while the group goes in town, and if you need items, give them some money to get your stuff (provided you trust them or whatnot).
Dracophile 06-01-04, 01:47 PM	I second the "be free and natural" comment above. I don't know how your DM works things, but I don't see any reason why good or neutral creatures would have problems with a Brass dragon. Given, your character won't be the one the party sends in to the thieve's guild to cut a deal with the local boss...but that's probably not an RP scenario that comes up all that often.
Montieth 06-07-04, 03:00 AM	The changes in polymorph has made this rather tricky. I'm kind of curious how the Greyhawk dragons will be shoehorned in with their preference for humanoid form over Draconic form. As far as the Brass Dragon Character goes, it sounds rather interesting and fun as a character. With the human form being more often then not, you have a potential to startle party members.
Qube 06-07-04, 06:40 AM	unlimited/continous polymorph ring. very bad idea: when you polymorph, you regain all hp. i'd create a custom made item that let you change into a normal human. (only 1 human: you can't choose how you look) (price: of an alter self item)