Breath weapon, sonic damage or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Breath weapon, sonic damage or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Goomba
02-06-06, 08:44 PM Ok. Here is the situation. In this current campaign I am a PC. Me and my buddy switch on and off with the DMing. Now We have just acquired a whole bunch of new books. The Monster Manual III being one of them. I am playing a bard. This happens to be my first Bard, and I am enjoying role playing with him. Now as far as combat goes, I suck. I used a few songs and cast a few spells. Sit back and enjoy and give my advice for tactics and so forth. Now, The bard has the ability called countersong. Whenever a sonic or language based spell/spell like ability is used. I can use my countersongs perform check for the saving throw for the whole party.

We were fighting an Amethyst dragon. The breath weapon on the Amethyst dragon is a line of force. Now, The DM would not allow the countersong to have any effect. I held the arguemnt that any force weapon used by the army, starwars movies, ect are all sonic blast type effects. Now we ended up working out a deal to let it work for my bard only. Until we could get the boards input on this. Let me know what u guys think.
Kresalak
02-06-06, 08:55 PM Force damage is, well, damage from force. Such as extreme pressure. Sonic damage is what you're looking for.
Athanatos
02-06-06, 08:58 PM Invisible force can come from any sort of waves, not just mechanical sonic waves.

Like Kreselak said, the countersong would only work if the breath weapon does sonic damage.
dok
02-06-06, 09:54 PM Your DM is right. Technically, the DM is always right, but in this case, the rules support him as well.

[Force] is a descriptor, and a game-defined term, seperate and distinct from [sonic]

Force-effects deal physical damage, and extend into the etherial. Examples include the various hand spells, spiritual weapon, and, of course, wall of force. Magic missle is another Force spell. None of these can be affected by a Bard's countersong ability.

In comparison, the Emerald Dragon has a breath weapon of "keening sonic energy", which would be eligible.

D&D is very good about descriptors and game-mechanics. Any effect that is Sonic will be described with the word "sonic". If it does not have the desciptor, it isn't a sonic effect. End of story.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Goomba 02-06-06, 08:44 PM	Ok. Here is the situation. In this current campaign I am a PC. Me and my buddy switch on and off with the DMing. Now We have just acquired a whole bunch of new books. The Monster Manual III being one of them. I am playing a bard. This happens to be my first Bard, and I am enjoying role playing with him. Now as far as combat goes, I suck. I used a few songs and cast a few spells. Sit back and enjoy and give my advice for tactics and so forth. Now, The bard has the ability called countersong. Whenever a sonic or language based spell/spell like ability is used. I can use my countersongs perform check for the saving throw for the whole party. We were fighting an Amethyst dragon. The breath weapon on the Amethyst dragon is a line of force. Now, The DM would not allow the countersong to have any effect. I held the arguemnt that any force weapon used by the army, starwars movies, ect are all sonic blast type effects. Now we ended up working out a deal to let it work for my bard only. Until we could get the boards input on this. Let me know what u guys think.
Kresalak 02-06-06, 08:55 PM	Force damage is, well, damage from force. Such as extreme pressure. Sonic damage is what you're looking for.
Athanatos 02-06-06, 08:58 PM	Invisible force can come from any sort of waves, not just mechanical sonic waves. Like Kreselak said, the countersong would only work if the breath weapon does sonic damage.
dok 02-06-06, 09:54 PM	Your DM is right. Technically, the DM is always right, but in this case, the rules support him as well. [Force] is a descriptor, and a game-defined term, seperate and distinct from [sonic] Force-effects deal physical damage, and extend into the etherial. Examples include the various hand spells, spiritual weapon, and, of course, wall of force. Magic missle is another Force spell. None of these can be affected by a Bard's countersong ability. In comparison, the Emerald Dragon has a breath weapon of "keening sonic energy", which would be eligible. D&D is very good about descriptors and game-mechanics. Any effect that is Sonic will be described with the word "sonic". If it does not have the desciptor, it isn't a sonic effect. End of story.