Post/Author/DateTime	Post
the passenger 12-15-05, 12:40 PM	If I have a Druid with a Brown Bear as an animal companion. Can the Brown Bear wear barding ? Thanks a lot! :)
tryco 12-15-05, 12:43 PM	I think so. Just change the armor of a horse so it fits the bear. you could use the bear also as a riding animal/companion.
the passenger 12-15-05, 03:07 PM	Ok, so we can say that any animal can wear armor. But what about armor proficiency. In the animal type we can read: "Proficient with no armor unless trained for war." What does it mean? Does it mean that only the warhorse can wear barding without penalty? Thanks a lot! :)
cwslyclgh 12-15-05, 03:14 PM	that would be how I read it. war horse, war pony, or creature with the warbeast template (MM2).
the passenger 12-15-05, 03:21 PM	Let say that we only use the three main books, because I don't have the Monster Manual 2. So only the animal with "War" in there name are trained for war? Let say that my animal has learn the trick "attack" (or Trained for fighting) from the Handle Animal skill. Will it be trained for war ? Thanks a lot! :)
Talisman 12-15-05, 04:14 PM	If I were the GM, I'd say that "Armor Proficiency" for an animal not normally trained to wear armor (such as a bear) would count as either a feat or a trick, Handle Animal DC 15-20 to learn. You could strap barding on a bear not trained to use it, but I'd apply the full armor check penalty to attacks and physical skill checks, and role-play the bear trying to chew off the armor, etc. If you can convince me that this is a "war bear" (that is, one specifically trained from birth for combat) than I might let you get away with a free armor proficiency.
MarkB 12-15-05, 04:47 PM	Even a warhorse technically has no armour proficiencies. They're not listed as feats in its Monster Manual entry, and the accompanying text makes no reference to armour. Therefore even a heavy warhorse ought to be taking penalties to attack if wearing any armour with an ACP. I would say that if you rear an animal from birth for war, you can choose to substitute armour proficiency feats (at the usual prerequisites) for its existing non-bonus feats. If you want to take the position that, despite not having the feats, an animal "trained for war" has armour proficiency, then a reasonable compromise would be to treat any animal with the "Fighting", "Guarding" or "Combat Riding" training 'packages' as having light armour proficiency, or possibly light and medium.
sorites 12-15-05, 05:14 PM	I would say an animal must be trained for purpose: Combat Riding or trained for purpose: Fighting to be considered "trained for war". To train an animal for either purpose requires a Handle Animal skill check (DC 20) and takes time (from three to six weeks). From the SRD: Combat Riding (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes six weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat riding by spending three weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Warhorses and riding dogs are already trained to bear riders into combat, and they don’t require any additional training for this purpose. Fighting (DC 20): An animal trained to engage in combat knows the tricks attack, down, and stay. Training an animal for fighting takes three weeks.
Wolf72 12-16-05, 11:40 AM	I agree with sorites ... would have been nice if they included in there that the critter had armor proficiency though ... or didn't suffer any additional (besides typical ones) penalties from the ACP (attacks mostly). or get a barding without ACP ... leather, padded, MW studded leather, mithral chain shirt barding ...
JiCi 12-16-05, 03:27 PM	Sure it can... if it is trained for war. Look Passenger, any animal trained for war, by a successfull handle animal check, can wear barding. They are treated as having all three "armor proficiency" feats. Heavy/Light warhorses are trained for war. Battletitans (from MMIII) are trained for war. War mastiffs (from Heroes of Battle) are trained for war. You can have a full-plate barding-wearing brown bear running toward armies formations while riding and at lance point if you want, as long as you take the time to train it to wear barding and carry you around while wiping foes. But you must know that, since Races of Stone, exotic armors exist and thus aren't considered "learned" by the skill check. It takes a feat to be proficient with exotic armors, which includes all armors regarless of weight classes. On second though, that full-plate barding-wearing brown bear might cause you trouble due to your restriction. You might want to go with something druid-friendly.