Building Swarms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building Swarms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Everach
03-10-04, 02:51 PM Anyone have any guidelines for building swarms of small-sized creatures? Any examples in the material out there?
Everach
03-11-04, 03:12 PM Bump. Anyone?
d_nychus
03-11-04, 03:44 PM I wish I knew myself. I want to make a reasonable swarm to replace Creeping Doom. Getting ten CR 4 swarms for a 7th level spell just REALLY does not cut it.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
03-11-04, 03:51 PM Swarms of small creatures don't exist.
d_nychus
03-11-04, 04:01 PM I think he meant small in the relative term and not Small, the size type.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
03-11-04, 04:13 PM Originally posted by d_nychus
I think he meant small in the relative term and not Small, the size type.

He said small-sized.
Everach
03-11-04, 04:19 PM I do indeed mean a swarm of small creatures.

Like a swarm of giant rats, for example.
d_nychus
03-11-04, 06:04 PM It's not possible, under the rules.

Swarms can be Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine, but not Small.
Everach
03-11-04, 06:43 PM Humor me. How would I buy a swarm of tiny creatures from scratch?
d_nychus
03-11-04, 06:49 PM That's what I said originally. I don't know how to build swarms, nor have I really taken time to tinker with them.

The reason I say that Small creatures do not work with swarms is because they are outside of the listed possible types for swarms in the MM.
the_heart
03-12-04, 10:30 AM from a strictly mechanical POV; that would be hard to rationalise, as small is the first size where you need a full 5' square to fight effectively, and therefore are better represented as discrete foes. before that it's easy to justify more than one critter to a square!

a better solution may be to give the critters swarm fighting as a bonus feat.

but some ideas if you were to insist, work out how many critters are needed. (300 for a swarm of tinies in an area that should hold 16) approximately 100, and 300 -350 flying? they may be a bit high though.

HD will probably be greater than that of a tiny swarm, say 10 times that of the base creature. and damage about twice that of the base creature. and if dispersed 2-8 creatures remain to be defeated individually.

no weapon immunity, but still vulnerable to area attacks. special attacks as the base creature.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Everach 03-10-04, 02:51 PM	Anyone have any guidelines for building swarms of small-sized creatures? Any examples in the material out there?
Everach 03-11-04, 03:12 PM	Bump. Anyone?
d_nychus 03-11-04, 03:44 PM	I wish I knew myself. I want to make a reasonable swarm to replace Creeping Doom. Getting ten CR 4 swarms for a 7th level spell just REALLY does not cut it.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 03-11-04, 03:51 PM	Swarms of small creatures don't exist.
d_nychus 03-11-04, 04:01 PM	I think he meant small in the relative term and not Small, the size type.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 03-11-04, 04:13 PM	Originally posted by d_nychus I think he meant small in the relative term and not Small, the size type. He said small-sized.
Everach 03-11-04, 04:19 PM	I do indeed mean a swarm of small creatures. Like a swarm of giant rats, for example.
d_nychus 03-11-04, 06:04 PM	It's not possible, under the rules. Swarms can be Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine, but not Small.
Everach 03-11-04, 06:43 PM	Humor me. How would I buy a swarm of tiny creatures from scratch?
d_nychus 03-11-04, 06:49 PM	That's what I said originally. I don't know how to build swarms, nor have I really taken time to tinker with them. The reason I say that Small creatures do not work with swarms is because they are outside of the listed possible types for swarms in the MM.
the_heart 03-12-04, 10:30 AM	from a strictly mechanical POV; that would be hard to rationalise, as small is the first size where you need a full 5' square to fight effectively, and therefore are better represented as discrete foes. before that it's easy to justify more than one critter to a square! a better solution may be to give the critters swarm fighting as a bonus feat. but some ideas if you were to insist, work out how many critters are needed. (300 for a swarm of tinies in an area that should hold 16) approximately 100, and 300 -350 flying? they may be a bit high though. HD will probably be greater than that of a tiny swarm, say 10 times that of the base creature. and damage about twice that of the base creature. and if dispersed 2-8 creatures remain to be defeated individually. no weapon immunity, but still vulnerable to area attacks. special attacks as the base creature.