Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Azezel 02-07-06, 01:17 PM	I've created an outline for a Butterfly - one of those giant tropical things that can only be swatted with a badminton rackett - now I'm looking for crittique. Butterfly, Giant Fine Vermin HD : 1/4d2 (1) Speed : 0' (0 Squares), Fly 5' (1 Square) AC : 21 (+4 size, +7 DEX) Touch 21, Flat Footed 14 BA/G : +0/-12 Attack : - Space/Reach : 1/100'/0' Special Attacks : None Special Qualities : Scent, LL Vision Saves FORT : +0 REF : +7 WILL : +0 Abilities STR : 1 DEX : 24 CON : 10 INT : 1 WIS : 10 CHA : 4 Skills : Tumble +10, Climb +12, Ballence +12 Feats : Weapon Finesse Environment : Tropical Forrest Organisation : Solitary CR : - The creature has no attack, because it's a Butterfly, and it has no challenge rating for much the same reason... Why do I need stats for a Butterfly? Well - let's just say it won't stay like this for long...
Rickiel 02-07-06, 01:55 PM	Fiendish Butterflies....Familiarized Butterflies... Ones with the specific power to Bestow Curse on anyone they touch... Ones with the power to cause hurricanes! TYPHOONS! And frogs coming down from the sky. Ahhhh the possibilities.
dok 02-07-06, 03:23 PM	It's a personal rant of mine, but bad formatting really hurts to read. One classic culprit is over-abbreviation. You're not saving any meaningful measure of time by shortening "BAB/Grapple" to "BA/G", you're just making it harder for others to read. Especially when you spell out things like "Space/Reach" and "Special Attacks". Like I said, it's a personal rant for me, but if you're going to post and ask for feedback, take the extra 60 seconds to spell everything out instead of abbreviating things. Common abbrevations are fine (AC instead of Armor Class, Fort. instead of Fortitude) but there is clearly a law of diminishing returns in effect Speed : 0' (0 Squares), Fly 5' (1 Square) You need to list a manueverability to go with the flight speed; either (good) or (perfect). BA/G : +0/-12 Strength modifier is -5. The grapple modifier for a Fine creature is -16. That gives a net Grapple modifier of -21 Abilities STR : 1 DEX : 24 CON : 10 INT : 1 WIS : 10 CHA : 4 Intelligence should be "-", meaning it's a mindless vermin, because, well, it is. Skills : Tumble +10, Climb +12, Ballence +12 Making the creature mindless means it loses all skill points & feats. It still has a +7 to all 'use untrained', dexterity-based skills. Meanwhile, I have no earthly clue where you got your skill points from; with a -5 intelligence modifier and 1 HD, you would have one skill rank. Climb, for example, has a -5 penalty for strength. Feats : Weapon Finesse Again, should be mindless, so no feats needed. Plus, why would a creature with no attacks have Weapon Finesse? It makes no sense.
Ace the Dead 02-07-06, 05:42 PM	I would offer the following in addtion to dok's comments: I've created an outline for a Butterfly - one of those giant tropical things that can only be swatted with a badminton rackett - now I'm looking for crittique Butterfly, Giant Fine Vermin That's inconsistant. Fine creatures can easily be swatted by hand. Toads (normal toads, not even bull frogs) are diminutive, and I'm pretty sure Krusk could crush one in his bare hands (bones and all). If you want something more than whatever I've got here (New York State) durring the summer, you should be diminutive, if not tiny. HD : 1/4d2 (1) Vermin have a d8 hit dice. Speed : 0' (0 Squares), Fly 5' (1 Square) My childhood experience tells me this is too slow a fly speed. Granted I could outrun them, but I had to actually make an effort. At least 15' (good). Also, given the way the climb you should probably give them a climb speed (and the assciated +8 bonus to climb checks), although as low as you can go (such as 2.5 feet: its small enough that that actually changes where in the square it is). Abilities STR : 1 DEX : 24 CON : 10 INT : 1 WIS : 10 CHA : 4 Con 10... CON 10? For a fine creature you should not be giving them the con of a full sized human. Especially because we're talking about a butterfly that could be pulled apart by a human child (maybe an orc child in this case). Also, butterflies seemed more charming than a Cha 4 creature. Skills : Tumble +10, Climb +12, Ballence +12 My childhood experience tell me that these creatures don't have ranks in tumble: they can be captured easily by even small children. And why balance? CR : - The creature has no attack, because it's a Butterfly, and it has no challenge rating for much the same reason... Um... toads don't have an attack and they have a CR. Why do I need stats for a Butterfly? Well - let's just say it won't stay like this for long... I sincerely hope there's a very good reason for the butterfly mod to challenge the PCs. I would be really, really, really ****** if a random butterfly posed any sort of threat to any PC I've invested the time and energy to create without really good reason, or it being really, really funny. And as I would have an emotional investment in my character, I sincerly doubt being threatened by one would be funny. What would a butterfly familiar grant, 'cause based on my urge to play/have an NPC with one, I'm guessing your players might want one. :P
Radijs 02-07-06, 05:46 PM	Paragorn Feral butterfly!
Azezel 02-07-06, 06:21 PM	Dok, Ace the Dead BA - BAB yes, I miss-typed, mia culpa. Graple, yes, I transposed the 1 and the 2, again, my mistake. Hit die d2 - I don't know - no explanation... INT - you are right, it should be '-' CON - all Tiny vermin have a CON of 10 Skills and feats - these are racial abilities, they are not dependant on INT (and most every creature in the MM has Weapon Finesse) When I said swatted by a badminton raquet I was being a little irreverant - humorous even. Besides which, fine is anything under 12 inches and this is less than a foot in every dimension. The bigger the butterfly (and these things are a good eight inches) the slower it flies, or so they tell me. CHA is not merely how charming a creature is, but it's force of personality - now, butterflies can be pretty single minded - but it still is only an insect if brains were computers then Charles Babbage has to oil this one every half an hour. It has no CR because it poses no challenge - not a bit. Okie dokie - I'll fix the things that are wrong chaps. Butterfly, Giant Fine Vermin HD : 1/8d8 (1) Speed : 0' (0 Squares), Fly 10' (2 Squares)(poor) AC : 21 (+4 size, +7 DEX) Touch 21, Flat Footed 14 Base Attack Bonus/Grapple : +0/-21 Attack : - Space/Reach : 1/100'/0' Special Attacks : None Special Qualities : Scent, LL Vision Saves FORT : +0 REF : +7 WILL : +0 Abilities STR : 1 DEX : 24 CON : 10 INT : - WIS : 10 CHA : 4 Skills : Tumble +10, Climb +12, Ballence +12 Feats : Weapon Finesse Environment : Tropical Forrest Organisation : Solitary CR : - Special: A Butterfly uses its DEX modifier for Climb checks, and can always take ten, even if disturbed. In case you are interested - this is not some weird atempt to slay PCs with pretty insects - I want a Butterfly Familiar - I have already submitted this to my DM - pending aproval I think a Butterfly Familiar should grant +3 to Diplomacy checks. Thank you for your help chaps, have I missed anything else?
JiCi 02-07-06, 07:23 PM	If it is a giant buterfly, how come it is Fine ? It should be like Small, Medium or Large, like this one (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=583048).
Azezel 02-08-06, 02:51 AM	When I say Giant Butterfly I mean it is a Butterfly which is larger than other Butterflies - I don't mean it is a monstrous creature. The largest Butterfly in RL is the Queen Allexandra Birdwing, which is nearly a foot from wing-tip to wing-tip. This is the sort of Butterfly we are talking about. Any thing under a foot is a fine creature. (The world record Butterfly is apparantly 10.2 inches - found in China, but there are moths even bigger than that).
MinionOfCthulhu 02-08-06, 06:08 PM	Now stat out the Quantum Weather Butterfly. :D
Korone 02-08-06, 06:11 PM	An awakened butterfly psion would be a total surprise, and totally non understandable. I.. I... I have to make one for my game. My PC will hate me. :D
Radijs 02-08-06, 06:21 PM	A quantum butterfly is easy. You can take the same stats and give it the spell-like ability "control weather" at will with a minimum range of the distance between Ankh-Morpork and Sto-Lat.
Gaia 02-09-06, 07:01 PM	I founded this somewhere on the Internet, hope it helps: Butterfly Familiar Fine Magical Beast HD: 1/2 master's HP: 1/2 master's Speed: 5', fly 30' (avarage) Initiative: +3 AC: 20 (touch 19, flat-footed 18) Attack: - Face/Reach: 1/2 ft x 1/2 ft, 0ft SQ: granted abilities Alignment: Any good Saves: Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +5 Abilities: Str 1, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 10 Skills: Move silently +12, Spot +4 (or master's, if better) Special: A butterfly grants its owner a +1 to all of her spell DCs. CR: - I only wrote it as I founded it, but change it as you please.
Echoes of Deception 02-10-06, 02:56 PM	As Hrycko wandered through the rich foliage of the jungle, something fluttersome caught his eye. It danced in the air, the vibrant colors of its wings playing eldritch light across the green leaves its surrounding plants and trees. Hrycko sheathed his machete away into the harness across his back and climbed up the slope of thick roots and curtain of blossoms that formed the short wall between this spectacle and himself. A thought tugged at the back of his mind. 'What are you doing? This could be a monster. Monsters have lures to attract the unwary. Turn back, just find food and go home.' But, it didn't matter to him, the dancing rainbow beyond was only too beautiful. He pushed aside the flowers and stepped through into a small clearing, the shining sun from above blinding him for a moment. He squinted and looked up, but stumbled back when he saw what he did. A monstrous face only an inch or so from his own. He cried out in fear as the thing slammed into him, and pain streaked across one side of his face, "OW! Son of an orc! I got pollen in my eye!" He brushed aside his colorful offender and drew his machete, heading off into the jungle to find food. "Darn butterflies," he grumbled.