Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ChileanDude 07-17-05, 07:07 PM	im have a few ideas in mind but i dont know if that would work.
Muddball 07-17-05, 07:14 PM	sorry for asking, but what are PJ level? If that was a PC, then yes, at the right experence levels awakened creatures can gain PC classes, or simplay gain another HD
ChileanDude 07-17-05, 07:19 PM	ops PJ its spanish for PC ^^
obrysii 07-18-05, 11:15 AM	Any creature with 3 Int or higher can take classes (and prestige classes, should they meet the prerequisits). Yes, even the Tarrasque can take classes.
Shroomy 07-18-05, 02:21 PM	Its been recently done in Dungeon. Check out Sean K. Reynold's adventure "The Lost Temple of Demogorgon," which contains a variety of awakened apes and dire apes with class levels.
Rohano 07-20-05, 04:40 AM	The whole point of a character class is training. To go into a player class, you have to have training. That's the DMG's difference between a warrior and a fighter. A fighter was professionally trained into his class, a warrior's just a guy with a weapon who learned to use it through experience, trial and error. According to the official rules, any creature with an intelligence score of 3 or higher may take class levels. However, if that creature isn't the type to sit and train (perhaps if the creature is absorbed in some other activity or is simply too chaotic), then consider NPC class levels. I think the whole point of NPC class levels in reference to monsters is that an NPC level represents what the monster has developed without training. Like taking warrior levels because the monster learned how to fight better, or adept powers if the monster developed some kind of magical ability (I used to have an awakened Darkmantle with adept levels and maxxed HD [making it really friggin' huge] who assisted my players during excursions into the underdark -- he was very helpful for an intelligent creature that had never seen a book before). Another path to take is represented in the book Savage Species. Various monsters, pulled from the Monster Manual, can take special prestige classes based on their species. For instance, a Mind Flayer can become an Illithid Savant, because the mind flayer has used his experience to learn to make eating brains more efficient. A slaad can take Slaad Brooder, representing his mastery over his ability to implant eggs into opponents during combat. Awaken makes a previously stupid creature into a sentient creature and it's one of my favorite spells (I had an evil druid that created an army of treants using that wonderful spell). If you want to take the use of the spell further, into a very bewildering advanced world where nothing is set in stone, consider using it on a patch of dirt to create an earth elemental. Make some sort of roll coupled with your wisdom (if you're a druid) bonus to see what size it is (with a limit based on your level). But, if that path frightens you, don't dare walk it.
Kain Scion of Balance 07-20-05, 09:08 AM	The whole point of a character class is training. To go into a player class, you have to have training. That's the DMG's difference between a warrior and a fighter. A fighter was professionally trained into his class, a warrior's just a guy with a weapon who learned to use it through experience, trial and error. According to the official rules, any creature with an intelligence score of 3 or higher may take class levels. However, if that creature isn't the type to sit and train (perhaps if the creature is absorbed in some other activity or is simply too chaotic), then consider NPC class levels. I think the whole point of NPC class levels in reference to monsters is that an NPC level represents what the monster has developed without training. Like taking warrior levels because the monster learned how to fight better, or adept powers if the monster developed some kind of magical ability (I used to have an awakened Darkmantle with adept levels and maxxed HD [making it really friggin' huge] who assisted my players during excursions into the underdark -- he was very helpful for an intelligent creature that had never seen a book before). Another path to take is represented in the book Savage Species. Various monsters, pulled from the Monster Manual, can take special prestige classes based on their species. For instance, a Mind Flayer can become an Illithid Savant, because the mind flayer has used his experience to learn to make eating brains more efficient. A slaad can take Slaad Brooder, representing his mastery over his ability to implant eggs into opponents during combat. Awaken makes a previously stupid creature into a sentient creature and it's one of my favorite spells (I had an evil druid that created an army of treants using that wonderful spell). If you want to take the use of the spell further, into a very bewildering advanced world where nothing is set in stone, consider using it on a patch of dirt to create an earth elemental. Make some sort of roll coupled with your wisdom (if you're a druid) bonus to see what size it is (with a limit based on your level). But, if that path frightens you, don't dare walk it. I never thought of using "awaken" to make an artificial earth elemental before that's a pretty cool idea. A cook character to play would be an awakened skeleton, if you had a bluff skill you could convience everyone you're just like every other skeleton and then go about killing with glee! :P
Slagger the Chuul 07-20-05, 09:41 AM	A cook character to play would be an awakened skeleton, if you had a bluff skill you could convience everyone you're just like every other skeleton and then go about killing with glee! :P I know it's just a typo, but I had a funny image of a skeleton in a chef's hat and an apron trying to convince a group of adventurers he is just like the other skeletons (by standing nearby talking while the adventurers fight off a vicious horde of regular skeleton).
Rohano 07-20-05, 08:10 PM	I dunno if you can Awaken undead, and my PhB isn't handy... It'd be cool if you could, cuz the undead would instantly get the Emancipated Spawn template (cuz they've been given the ability to leave behind their masters). Awaken is one of my favorite spells!
Kurama Youko 07-21-05, 01:56 PM	im have a few ideas in mind but i dont know if that would work. I hope they are all psionic, because even awakened a animal wouldnt be well suited to many classes other than psionic ones. 1.) Animals that dont have opposable thumbs can't wield weapons effectively, they can't wear armor effectively, this makes them poor choices for fighters. 2.) Monks like above would definitely need some kind of hand to be valid in here. A Human cannot teach a dog to bould up its paw into a fist and make a unarmed strike, nor could it teach it to kick, or elbow, headbutt, knee, or whatever have you effectively enough to a animals shape. 3.) Even with the ability to speak, a animal would need to be able to make all the appropriate hand gestures to cast a spell, as well as the hands to access material components. Thus spellcasting is thus difficult if not impossible for a awaken creature to do successfully. Yes a animal could take Eschrew Materials but that only gets read of having to you inexpensive material components. Yes they could take Surrogate Spellcasting which would definitely help when it comes to those somatic components, I think. Other than a Monkey or Ape i dont see spellcasting taking off to much with the 4 legged critters. 4.) Psionics on the other hand are a all around can do for awakened critters. Psionics have no Material, Verbal or Somatic Components. 5.) Many powers from the Egoist and Psy Warrior list are ideal for a Awaken Animal. Claws of the Beast, Bite of the Wolf, Thickend Skin, Metamorphsis. So on and so forth. Though any discipline could work for them the Egoist/Psychometabolism is probably the most fitting to compliment their natural talents. 6.) Only the SoulKnife would be a odd choice for a awakened animal, though not impossible unlike a normal fighter type. In the picture of the Soulknife in the XPH the blade seems to protrude from a closed hand or what have you, sort of like Psylocks from X-Men I dont like the idea but I guess even a paw could have something like that eminating from it. (I dont like the idea but whatever right?) 7.) Wilder isnt a horrible choice, higher lv powers than a PsyWarrior, nice skills to choose from, better saves that work with their natural saves, and sort of fits my idea of them not being as developed as humanoids who could be prodominately psions thus having more powers, but they being awakend critters having few powers but with savage emotion augmenting them more powerfully, also gives them more hit points.
Kurama Youko 07-21-05, 01:58 PM	I dunno if you can Awaken undead, and my PhB isn't handy... It'd be cool if you could, cuz the undead would instantly get the Emancipated Spawn template (cuz they've been given the ability to leave behind their masters). Awaken is one of my favorite spells! Awaken Undead can be found in the savage species or in the Libris Mortis I believe, it is a spell, it does cost exp, and it only works on unintelligent undead, (Zombies and Skeletons mostly.)
Gonbow 07-21-05, 07:11 PM	I hope they are all psionic, because even awakened a animal wouldnt be well suited to many classes other than psionic ones. 1.) Animals that dont have opposable thumbs can't wield weapons effectively, they can't wear armor effectively, this makes them poor choices for fighters. Barding and those strange things they call 'natural' weapons. 2.) Monks like above would definitely need some kind of hand to be valid in here. A Human cannot teach a dog to bould up its paw into a fist and make a unarmed strike, nor could it teach it to kick, or elbow, headbutt, knee, or whatever have you effectively enough to a animals shape. There is a history of monsters taking monk levels (Minotaurs, Dolgaunts), but all said monsters are humanoid, even with some extra appendages, so I second this one. 3.) Even with the ability to speak, a animal would need to be able to make all the appropriate hand gestures to cast a spell, as well as the hands to access material components. Thus spellcasting is thus difficult if not impossible for a awaken creature to do successfully. Yes a animal could take Eschrew Materials but that only gets read of having to you inexpensive material components. Yes they could take Surrogate Spellcasting which would definitely help when it comes to those somatic components, I think. Other than a Monkey or Ape i dont see spellcasting taking off to much with the 4 legged critters. There are some feats that allow you to cast spells usefully in animal form. Generally though, the form of most animals make them ill-suited to being spell-casters. Exceptions: Druids and Warlocks. Druids can shape-change into shapes with opposable thumbs and vocal cords quite easily, and warlocks have no problem pointing a hoof and neighing appropriately (or shouldn't) 4.) Psionics on the other hand are a all around can do for awakened critters. Psionics have no Material, Verbal or Somatic Components. Quite true, earlier someone wanted stats for a awakened cat (kitten) which he was going to advance with Psion levels as the BBEG for his campaign. Scary. 5.) Many powers from the Egoist and Psy Warrior list are ideal for a Awaken Animal. Claws of the Beast, Bite of the Wolf, Thickend Skin, Metamorphsis. So on and so forth. Though any discipline could work for them the Egoist/Psychometabolism is probably the most fitting to compliment their natural talents. Agreed. 6.) Only the SoulKnife would be a odd choice for a awakened animal, though not impossible unlike a normal fighter type. In the picture of the Soulknife in the XPH the blade seems to protrude from a closed hand or what have you, sort of like Psylocks from X-Men I dont like the idea but I guess even a paw could have something like that eminating from it. (I dont like the idea but whatever right?) Well, there is no real reason you cant have the energy look like something else. Have it be some energy claws. As long as it deals the same damage, it is no more or less powerful. 7.) Wilder isnt a horrible choice, higher lv powers than a PsyWarrior, nice skills to choose from, better saves that work with their natural saves, and sort of fits my idea of them not being as developed as humanoids who could be prodominately psions thus having more powers, but they being awakend critters having few powers but with savage emotion augmenting them more powerfully, also gives them more hit points. On the same vein, the Barbarian, Ranger and Rogue classes all suit animals just fine. What is more animalistic than an animal? What is more at home in nature than an... animal? And finally, which is more sneaky, a five foot ten human in a black suit, or a dire rat? Comments in red.
Rohano 07-21-05, 09:45 PM	Actually, there are a lot of animals that can make good monks. A monk doesn't just use his fist, all of his focus is on his general unarmed attacks. This means that a rabbit could use its feet, much like other powerful-legged creatures (a kangaroo monk comes to mind... *shudder*) Druids, rangers, and barbarians are supposed to be the natural class choices for animals. Often, a paragon or a dire animal with high enough attributes will take these classes. For instance, a paragon chipmunk (if it had a high enough wisdom and intelligence) could become a druid. Chipmunks can pick things up and somatic components don't specify the use of fingers (an intelligent chipmunk wouldn't have any trouble throwing some reagents onto the ground and thrusting its arms forward to cast a spell, right?). A paragon bear (with a high enough intelligence) would easily make a terrifying barbarian, and most animals with the scent ability take more interest as rangers (a dire/paragon wolf at the head of its pack might take ranger levels, as ranger abilities, spells, skills, etc. would make it a much better leader). Psionics really don't occur naturally in animals... except the psionic monsters. Animals who have somehow gained psionic abilities are supposed to take the Psionic template. An animal rarely has the discipline needed (even an awakened animal) to sit around, meditating all the time or wandering around experimenting with its mind to improve itself, as a psion/psychic warrior does. I believe the Lords of Nature book (or whatever the ranger/druid/barbarian book is called) has a lot of spells and feats to benefit animals. Feats like Create Infusion (you enchant herbs, effectively making potions without bottles) and Wild Spell (cast spells in wild shape; as a DM, I'd allow an animal to take this) can help out an animal caster. And, as I said, there's all kinds of spells in that book that are great use to animals.
Kurama Youko 07-21-05, 10:10 PM	The reason why most sane DM's wouldnt allow Animal Monks is because whatever style you wanna call it was developed usually by a humanoid race (Human, Elf, Dwarf whatever have you they created what is the make up of the Monk Class. Not a Cat, or a Rabbit or a Snake.) If you want Kung Fu Bunnies then prehapes you should think more along the lines of a Anthromorphic Rabbit. Minamoto Usagi The Samurai Rabbit!!! I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their own campaigns but it doesnt seem pretty wrong in the assumption that a critter who doesnt isnt shaped like a humanoid to learn a style that is emphazied by the humanoid shape. Stunning Fist.. without a fist? Round about kick with a hoof? see where this is going? Even skills named after animals, Eagle Claw with a Hoof? Right I havent seen the stats for a Kangaroo yet, but then again I dont see many campaigns taking place is a Australian setting. ;) Yes the Nature classes would indeed be a fine class for most animals. Though I dont see how some of the animals will fair with the Ranger class, its biggest boon is Combat Style and other than a monkey or ape I dont see to many other animals grasping bows or going two weapon style. I dont remember of the ruling on using natural weapons as your primary weapons for the purpose of additional attacks because of high BAB, and I'm pretty sure it doesnt allow you to make a extra attack with your natural weapon or else they wouldnt have made the rapid strike feat. Now that I mention it though I'd guess Rapid Strike could be added to the Combat Style list, along with Improved Rapid Strike and finally Multi Attack or Improved Multi Attack if the awakened animal already took it. Barbarian and Druid are by far alot more easily accessible, except for the material component and foci part of druid spellcasting. I'm kind of apprehensive of animals wild shaping into other animals just to meet the prerequisite for using Natural Spell, I dont think I'd let a animal use natural spell while in its true form though cause that would just negate the use of Eschew Materials. Barbarian Bears... ha funny stuff. I dont know about all this paragon stuff. Psionics not appearing offen in animals is because their stupid (low Int, low brain functions) but we arent talking about normal animals here we are talking about Awaken Ones.. You know once a animal becomes Awakened its no longer a animal its a Magical Beast and it gets a big boost to Int (3d6) I believe. Good chance for some genius Raccoon to become a Soulknife and put that natural robbers mask to work. I hadnt really thought of the Rogue, but now that I think of it, it really is a great class for a small awakened critter. Sneak Attack, Evasion, lots of Skill points, Trap Finding (very clever). Ninja would be awesome to see on a Squirrel, a Flying one preferably.
Rohano 07-21-05, 10:48 PM	I have a character I use in a non-d20 roleplaying environment that is an intelligent flying squirrel... he's something of a mystic (I suppose he's a loremaster or a druid in D&D terms). Heh, flying squirrels as ninjas... first, they'd need to pump iron to get muscles big enough to matter. A flying squirrel doing a Flying Dragon kick would be like a nudge, not a strike... I suppose it'd need some kind of metal claw attachment (Savage Species can fix dat right up). Remember that if an animal has an intelligence bonus less than 10, the penalty applies to skill points... which means a rogue animal might not have as many as you might've hoped. Rogue seems like the natural class for some animals, like racoons, squirrels, and most rodents... But I think an animal would need a much higher strength score for its Sneak Attack to matter. A tiny dagger might do 1d2+3d6 for a sneak attack, but I'd make an animal go for the throat with its sneak attack rather than the chest or back (an animal has little hope of pushing a tiny dagger in as far as a person's heart, unless it has a high enough strength score, jumps up and down on the dagger, or uses a bigger dagger, which requires exotic proficiencies for oversized weapons [I think] plus a higher strength). As for bunny monks, it would just have to present itself to a dojo or a monastery for training. Normally, monk orders accept any race (unless they worship a god that mandates differently) and are calm and collective enough to ignore the insults from villagers about their pet bunny in martial training. I reason that if a bunny can go train in a dojo or a monastery, then it can be a monk. ...But what if I want to put a community of intelligent animals in my world that have everything a large humanoid city has? A monastery, temples, wizard schools, magic shoppes, general stores, inns, taverns, homes, etc. As I stated previously, I had an evil druid that awakened dozens of trees into Treants whom lived around the party's city, so they guarded against foreign threats (treants are known to attack orcs marching through who burn and chop trees)... another party member had awakened rats in the sewer to make a hive mind, and I had started a project to awaken dozens of various woodland creatures to create a community of them... I think it's possible that there are communities of intelligent animals somewhere on some plane. *shrug* DM's choice. A huge viper assassin? *whistle* Whenever it's not on the job, it distills its own poison and stores it... hm... A snake ninja? ...I wouldn't allow it. A drunken master animal... hmm... I'd take a bear with golden fur that walked on its hind legs (very clumsily, often needing to brace against something for balance) and drank lots of honey mead. Whinny the Pooh, Drunken Master! "Oh, Poohbear, why are you so angry?" "Christopher Robin, SHOVE IT!" *glug glug glug, hiccup* Eegads, I had best stop typing. I could go on and on about this. :D
Kurama Youko 07-21-05, 11:14 PM	Ninja's in D&D or more important in the Complete Adv which features the class arent fighter types they are stealth and sneak attack types like rogues except they use something called sudden strike, and the damage from it doesnt change by size. So even a tiny F.Squirrel who bit you on the ankle would do 1+11d6 damage should he have been invisible and attacked you without you seeing him. sneak attack is gonna be a sneak attack no matter where you aim, though if you wanna be graphical and describe it as such as a throat bite then thats cool to. Whatever floats peoples boats. Again your using the term race very liberally. Does your dog get to go vote on presidents day? Does the lady across the street bring her Talking Parrot to debates to argue its view on racial equality? If your answer to this is no, then you have to understand even in D&D not everything counts as a race. Or maybe they do in other peoples eyes but a awaken anything that wanders into a monestary and ask for training is usually gonna get turned away for very practical reason, one its STRANGE to teach a tree or rabbit to preform martial arts. Also becoming awakened doesnt change a animals alignment last i checked thus there is no lawful animals to my knowledge and i think thats gonna be the best argument by the book for a reason against this. In that sense a Animal might chose to become good or evil or stay netural but as far as Lawful or Chaotic I dont feel any animal would self knowing lay follow those ideals because its a man made concept, actually so is good and evil, animals even awakened ones would probably see that and chose to ignore it.
Gonbow 07-21-05, 11:44 PM	Actually, most animals would probably be lawful over chaotic. One of the better expressions of lawfulness is following a set of behaivor that benefits the whole of a group rather than the one as an individual. While the best expression of chaoticness is following ones own desires and fullfilling ones dreams despite what everyone else may happen to think about it. Animals are fairly instinctual (chaotic), but more often than not, they fall into herds, packs or even hives (for insects, which being vermin, cant be awakened, though I'd need to check on that). Any of these clearly demonstrates a leaning towards lawfulness. Now, wether or not an awakened creature would apply it's same code of lawfulness towards other sentient beings... That will vary wildly per animal. But even if they treat everyone else as 'beneath the law', they can still be lawful. Every single 'slaver' culture in D&D is described as Lawful Evil. They acknowledge laws, but everyone other than them just happens to be beneath said laws. Loner animals (Bears, some Wolves, skunks, etc) will tend towards Chaos (Were-bears are chaotic good, in fact) rather than Lawfulness, because their philoshopy is based on their own personal survival and occasionally, that of their children, rather than a larger group. So in the end, it really depends on the animal. Their initial state of neutrality is something of a cop-out I think, but basically relates their instinctual connection to the balance of nature. No matter how ordered and neat an ant-hive is, there are a thousand messy things to balance it out, so on the whole, nature is balanced. And I'd be very very surprised to find an awakened animal that is still completely in tune with nature. Druids are likely to be the only awakened animals that retain true neutrality.
Kurama Youko 07-21-05, 11:59 PM	I really dont want to get into this because arguing animal behavior when the game has already classified animals as being neutral doesnt seem fruitful. It really doesnt seem like something that should even be brought up. If you wanna say that them becoming awakened that they would adopted a code of behavior then okay, if not I would say they have no reason to change from their normal idealology of eat, sleep and reproduce. I mean the commoners in the town generally do, they work so they can eat and have a place to sleep and when they see a member of the opposite sex they like and wanna be with, they reproduce and commoners certainly have higher brain functions than animals. ;) maybe. Anyway, I think everyones idea on awakened animals is very interesting especially mine. :rolleyes: :P
Tyler Do'Urden 07-22-05, 10:12 PM	Back in 3.0, a paladin's mount was just another horse (as opposed to a magical beast which can't be awakened). This poor guy's mount got awakened and the DM had it start taking levels of paladin to a different deity (not an evil one, just not the same one as the human paladin; might've been Kord and Pelor, I forget). So the paladin and his horse would sit around arguing religion like a bible study group. Then there was the wiseass: an awakened donkey NPC. After that was the badass: an awakened donkey, fallen paladin blackguard.
obrysii 07-22-05, 11:02 PM	I hope they are all psionic, because even awakened a animal wouldnt be well suited to many classes other than psionic ones. 1.) Animals that dont have opposable thumbs can't wield weapons effectively, they can't wear armor effectively, this makes them poor choices for fighters. Gloves of Man, Grasping Weapons...those things sort of solve that problem. As well, the whole 'poor choice for fighter' is part of the reason Awakened animals have no LA adjustment. 2.) Monks like above would definitely need some kind of hand to be valid in here. A Human cannot teach a dog to bould up its paw into a fist and make a unarmed strike, nor could it teach it to kick, or elbow, headbutt, knee, or whatever have you effectively enough to a animals shape. Ehh...WRONG. "Unarmed Strike" means any sort of physical attack made with some part of the body that is not an actual weapon. For example, a Beholder could use it's eyestalks to unarmed strike; a dragon to smack with it's head-horns; or it could be someone just throwing their whole body into the attack. For example: A dog could use the side of it's head to 'slap' its' enemies, and that would could as an Unarmed Strike. An Unarmed Strike needs not be with fists, kicks, or even headbutts! It is defined only as striking with some part of the body not intended to be a weapon (such as something lacking natural attacks).
Kurama Youko 07-22-05, 11:20 PM	really a dog can slap with the side of its head, something that is not usually used for a attack for a dog?... a beholder can slap you with its eye stalk really?.... A dragon can hit you with its head horns for a unarmed strike? really?... Hmm even if that was described, its not a unarmed strike, you slapped them with a horn... listen play as silly as you wont, horn slapping dragons, head slapping dogs, eye stalk whipping beholders. It's your DM's who will be the one making the intelligence call on these things, im just informing you quickly and before hand that it probably aint gonna fly. The reason point is this, why waste time deriving silly notions as beholders learning the Martial Arts? From who? Why? Where? When? These arent anthromorphic critters, just normal animals you see at the zoo, in what capacity... no im sorry I just refuse to get into this its just to stupid, right up there with the Baleen Whale being something everyone would love to play mechanically because of its abilities but knowing damn well it just doesnt make sense. And where do you get the idea that a Awakened Critter has no LA, does it say somewhere that awakened animals are for player characters to use? Do they have a awakened animal template somewhere? Again, its ultimately your game do as you will. :rolleyes:
kliate 07-22-05, 11:31 PM	Hey, don't forget rogue! Almost any awakened animal would benefit immensely from rogue levels...consider: Trapfinding - Walk around those pesky pits and avoid triggering those nasty flying darts. Sneak Attack - Land those claw attacks where they really count. Evasion - It's evasion. 'nuff said. Trap Sense - Even better to walk around those pesky pits and avoid getting hit by nasty flying darts. Uncanny Dodge - It's Uncanny Dodge. 'nuff said. Special Abilities - Crippling Strike...Useful Defensive Roll...Useful Improved Evasion...Useful Opportunist...Useful Skill Mastery...Useful Slippery Mind...Useful So, psionic classes aren't the only ones that work well for awakened animals. I'd proudly pit a dire rat rogue against a cat psion any day.
murdermonkey9000 07-31-05, 07:59 AM	somewhere in one of the books i read a passsage about casting spells and not having apendages like a naga for example was used if you dont have hands and arms you still us somantic components but with your body nagas have no arms but cast spells as sorcerrors and do not have feats to aid them...so you have to use em ...you just make em different
xver 07-31-05, 09:48 AM	Gabriella Sunchild: Female Elite "Fluffy Bunny" 3 Paladin of Sol Invictus 4; CR 5~6 (5.5); Tiny Magical Beast (augmented animal); HD 3d8+4d10+7; hp 42; Init +4; Spd 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 5 ft. (1 square); AC 23, touch 16, flat-footed 19; Base Atk +6/+1; Grp -4; Atk +14 melee (1d4-2/19-20/x2 S or P, enhanced logoblade) or +13 ranged (1d4-2/19-20/x2 P, masterwork shortbow); Atk +14/+9 melee (1d4-1/19-20/x2 S or P, enhanced logoblade) or +13/+8 ranged (1d4-2/19-20/x2 P, masterwork shortbow); SA Smite Evil (+1 to hit +4 dmg 1/day), Lay on Hands, Turn Undead, Spellcasting; SQ Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Divine Grace, Aura of Courage, Divine Health; AL LG; SV Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +7; Str 7, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 12. Skills and Feats: Listen +10, Spot +6, Heal +12, Hide +12, Knowledge of the Planes +10, Knowledge of Religion +10; Rabbit Fencing Student [Weapon Focus Logoblade], Rabbit Style Wu Shu [Weapon Finess], Iaijutusu [Quick Draw]. Spell Typically Prepared: Magic Weapon Languages Known: Logomorph, Common, and Celestial Possesions: Robe of the Initiate of the Mysteries (Female Cut Silk Toga, Died Purple), Enhanced Wooden Lamanar Fullplate "SwiftHorse" [+1] [Same Stats as Chain Shirt] (enamaled orange and yellow), Enhanced Logoblade "ClearWind" (Cold Iron Blade, Oak Grip) [+1], Masterwork Shortbow (Yew Bow, Iron Arrows, Bowstring spun from her mate's winter coat), Masterwork Iron Spiked Pine Sheild (sunburst motive, gilded), Golden Icon of Sol Invictus [Holy Symbol], Lead Flask of Holy Water purified from the River Styx [2d6 direct hit, 1d3 splash damage to undead or outsiders, dim evil aura], String of Seven Prayer Beads (hemp string, beads carved of fiend bone), Datura Insense, Pink Butterfly Silk Sash, Painted Rice Paper Fan (winter sunset on back, spring sunrise on front), The Seceret Book on the Sixty Four and One Hundrend and Twenty Eight Chambers [192 vellum pages, bound in elephant skullbone, Lagomorph System of Divination], "My Time" (Personal Log, Spell Lore, and Misc Notebook) [100 paper pages, 54 blank, bound in pine, "Song for Arrows" personal hymn for magic weapon, "Chanting of Water's Waves" tribal hymn for bless water, "Rituals at the Styx" log of experiments and a method of drawing holy water from the unholy river Styx, a detailed autobiography, metaphysical musings, et cetera.] Backstory Gabriella was born a fairly ordinary rabbit. Well, as ordinary as rabbits welped in Limbo are apt to be anyway. At a young age a chaotic timespace rift thust her in Arborea where she was awakened by a celestial nymph druid. However, she was one of many in a ecoforming project and so was left to her own devices. Halving been living peacfully for some time, she was suddenly conjured to the Mortal Coil. A befuddled Krynish Gnome and Kender having inadverntantly activated a scroll of gate whilst in a heated debate over it's value in local livestock, rabbits, of course. The surprised Sunchild darted away and eventually sought sanctuary in a solar temple. Therein she was visited by a solar spirt and carried back into the outer planes where her training as paladin began. Logoblade Logoblade isn't a funny way of spelling longsword. The logoblade is an exotic weapon similar to an elven longblade, but sized for tiny wielders. It is a Martial Weapon for Logomorph wielders. In worlds where awakened rabbits are allowed to use such things, of course. See rule zero.
Gonbow 07-31-05, 09:57 AM	An awakened animals gains extra HD, iintelligence and charisma. 2, 3d6(replaces) and 1d3(adds) respectively, so your bunny would have 3 animal levels on top of the 4 paladin levels, and isn't likely to have an intelligence oif 3 unless you rolled REALLY bad. Unless your play an anamorphic bunny from Savage Species, which would be suggested by the fact that it has equipment but no means of using them.. But the anamorphic wouldn't be tiny sized, or have int-3 either.
xver 07-31-05, 10:15 AM	Hmm. I guess I'll have to rebuild her. Oh and her equipement is rabbit spec stuff. She can use it if your imagination permits it. An epic barbarian character of mine failed a save or die and got reincarnated as a wolverene, I lost use of a bunch of archery and mounted combat feats, but the character was great fun. People (NPCs) assumed I was a druid who wildshaped at all times. I figured I could eventually catch lycanthropy and change back into an elf, but the game ended. Don't be so strict about stuff like hands and weapons. Watch shrek. You could stat that whole movie out and the module whould be great fun. Besides Monty Python and the ongoing bunny ascii art sig war on these boards indicates the bunny may be a fearsom warrior. The way I see it. Anything with 3 int or higher can take any class. Some may or may not work out so well depending on how strict the world and/or genera and/or DM is. Animals is not much a DnD tradition, but the sytem can handle it with ease. I'm off to read awaken and fix Gabriella ... Feindish Logomorphs Beware ... Now with more CR ...
bgt 07-31-05, 11:11 AM	I hope they are all psionic, because even awakened a animal wouldnt be well suited to many classes other than psionic ones. [...] 2.) Monks like above would definitely need some kind of hand to be valid in here. A Human cannot teach a dog to bould up its paw into a fist and make a unarmed strike, nor could it teach it to kick, or elbow, headbutt, knee, or whatever have you effectively enough to a animals shape. 3.) Even with the ability to speak, a animal would need to be able to make all the appropriate hand gestures to cast a spell, as well as the hands to access material components. Thus spellcasting is thus difficult if not impossible for a awaken creature to do successfully. Yes a animal could take Eschrew Materials but that only gets read of having to you inexpensive material components. Yes they could take Surrogate Spellcasting which would definitely help when it comes to those somatic components, I think. Other than a Monkey or Ape i dont see spellcasting taking off to much with the 4 legged critters. [...] 6.) Only the SoulKnife would be a odd choice for a awakened animal, though not impossible unlike a normal fighter type. In the picture of the Soulknife in the XPH the blade seems to protrude from a closed hand or what have you, sort of like Psylocks from X-Men I dont like the idea but I guess even a paw could have something like that eminating from it. (I dont like the idea but whatever right?) 2. I would allow an awakend animal to take levels in monk only if they had a slam attack. 3. Natural Spell would work wonders here. 6. The mindblade could look like whatever the soulknife wanted it to, and it doesn't have to be coming out of the soulknife's paw/hoof/whatever. I could see an awakened horse prancing around pretending to be a unicorn. Gets rather funny if the horse has a very deep, gravely voice and a love for alcohol.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 07-31-05, 11:26 AM	These arent anthromorphic critters, just normal animals you see at the zoo, in what capacity... no im sorry I just refuse to get into this its just to stupid, This is where I recommend that you read Sluggy Freelance. Animal monks aren't stupid. Just ask Bun-Bun.
Gonbow 07-31-05, 12:05 PM	This is where I recommend that you read Sluggy Freelance. Animal monks aren't stupid. Just ask Bun-Bun. MONK? Bun-bun... a MONK? Duuude. No way in hell. Bun-bun is a Chaotic Neutral Rogue to the max. Dagger of grasping and bluff maxxed out for continous sneak-attacks ;)
obrysii 07-31-05, 02:33 PM	really a dog can slap with the side of its head, something that is not usually used for a attack for a dog?... a beholder can slap you with its eye stalk really?.... A dragon can hit you with its head horns for a unarmed strike? really?... Hmm even if that was described, its not a unarmed strike, you slapped them with a horn... listen play as silly as you wont, horn slapping dragons, head slapping dogs, eye stalk whipping beholders. It's your DM's who will be the one making the intelligence call on these things, im just informing you quickly and before hand that it probably aint gonna fly. Such ignorance. Behold the truth: Improved Unarmed Strike [General] Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed —that is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you. In addition, your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your option. Normal Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack. Emphasis mine. Where, if you don't mind answering, does it say "an unarmed strike must be made with an arm, knee, elbow, or leg and cannot be taken by creatures of non-humanoid body shape."? The reason point is this, why waste time deriving silly notions as beholders learning the Martial Arts? From who? Why? Where? When? Where'd that human get his martial arts training? What about that silly half-orc? Or that centuar? Or *instert subrace of elf here*? Ever notice that sometimes race just doesn't matter? You can learn martial arts on your own. Perhaps that beholder was afraid that he was going to get attacked where it was impossible to use his eye-rays, and so he learned a sort of physical attack that did not rely on the ability to wield weapons? Don't be so narrow minded. And where do you get the idea that a Awakened Critter has no LA, does it say somewhere that awakened animals are for player characters to use? Do they have a awakened animal template somewhere? Again, its ultimately your game do as you will. :rolleyes: Open your eyes. Don't see so things so narrowly. You're telling me that if someone came up to you with a creative, balanced character, you would not allow it? When'd the game go from "having fun" to "do as I say" ?
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 07-31-05, 02:56 PM	MONK? Bun-bun... a MONK? Duuude. No way in hell. Bun-bun is a Chaotic Neutral Rogue to the max. Dagger of grasping and bluff maxxed out for continous sneak-attacks ;) I'm aware he wouldn't be a monk, as he's not lawful. He appears to have most of the abilities of a monk. I'd also peg him at NE, not CN. [/hijack]
JiCi 08-04-05, 09:13 AM	As long as the base creature has an Int score of 3 or higher, it can a PC class. As for which one, it all depends on the animal's background story, but technically, animals favor nature-related classes. Barbarians, druids and rangers are common, but rogues, clerics and even scouts (CA) and spirit shamans (CD) are not uncommon. For the others, here are a few examples: Wizard/Sorcerer/Hexblade (CW): an awakened familiar Fighter/Paladin: an awakened mount Ninja (CA)/Spellthief (CA)/Swashbuckler (CW): a pet who lost its master and seeks revenge. Shugenja (CD)/Wu Jen (CA)/Samurai (CW): an animal coming from the east or similar oriental region Warmage (CA)/Warlock (CA): an animal taken care by an arcane order Favored Soul (CD)/ Healer (MH): an sacred/venerated animal who represents a divine entity Artificier (ECS): a pet/beast of burden of a dying inventor from the Last War Psion/Psychic Warrior/Wilder/Soulknife (all XPH): an animal raised by a psionic-using tribe/clan/family (such as xeph, half-giant and dromite)
JiCi 08-04-05, 09:16 AM	And as for the 1001 new classes posted on the WotC message boards, well just pick one that would fit with your character.
Gilean 08-06-05, 03:58 AM	Two new ranger combat styles Natural weapon 1st feat: Weapon focus [the natural weapon] 2nd feat: Improved natural attack [the natural weapon] 3rd feat: Weapon specialization [the natural weapon] Multiattack 1st feat: Multiattack 2nd feat: Improved multiattack 3rd feat: Rapidstrike(from Draconomicon)