Can both templates be added? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can both templates be added? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
glasialabolas
12-01-04, 09:30 AM Can an undead spellcaster be both a vampire and a lich? I think not but I just want to ask it here so as to get another opinion. I searched and didn't find an answer to that. Yes I know it has a great level adjustment, if it would be technically possible.

Also, even this may not be the appropriate forum to ask, can a tranformational prestige class be added to a wiz/sor who already has taken enough levels to another transformationl prestige class(like both an acolyte of the skin and elemental savant or both, dragon disciple and green star adept or whatever else...)?
Escef
12-01-04, 09:45 AM No, neither template can be applied to undead, and you have to be one or the other first, as they are both acquired templates.

I suppose one could houserule a creature that has the powers of both, but it had better be unique, otherwise people will get very unhappy.
robertliguori
12-01-04, 09:46 AM Yes. However, it will involve polymorph any object or a similar effect, because you need to be humanoid/monstrous humanoid to take either template.
runestar
12-04-04, 07:24 AM No to the first question, unless you found some way to gain both templates simultaneously. And there's that nasty LA of +12 to contend with. If you want both of them to stack to gain the class features of both templates, I suggest creating a new template that incorporates both, since a lot of LA is wasted on redundant features that accrue when one embraces undeath.

To the second, yeah, they would stack, but the end result would be ... interesting, to say the least. If a lich sorceror took levels in dragon disciple, would he become some sort of warped dracolich? Some of the transformational classes don't seem to blend well with undeath. An undead elemental??? The notion is mind-boggling, though the process of becoming one is straightforward enough by dnd mechanics.
KangsRegiment
12-04-04, 07:38 PM For the second question, it really depends on the type the character's transforming into, as some types have precedence over others (as stated in Savage Species). For example, Outsiders, Undead, and Constructs have precedence over everything else. Thus, a lich with 10 levels of Dragon Disciple is still just an undead. If the types are of equal status, as in the case of a lich having 10 levels in Acolyte of the Skin or Green Star Adept, it's a DM judgment call. I personally would say that undead could be transformed into outsiders and constructs through a prestige class, but not the other way around.
Melpomene
12-04-04, 07:49 PM Even when Vecna ascended to Godhood, he retained his undead type.
Slagger the Chuul
12-04-04, 10:50 PM An undead elemental??? The notion is mind-boggling, though the process of becoming one is straightforward enough by dnd mechanics.

And also done as a deliberate monster design, like the necromental template, the cinderspawn, desiccator, and voidwraith (all from Libris Mortis).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
glasialabolas 12-01-04, 09:30 AM	Can an undead spellcaster be both a vampire and a lich? I think not but I just want to ask it here so as to get another opinion. I searched and didn't find an answer to that. Yes I know it has a great level adjustment, if it would be technically possible. Also, even this may not be the appropriate forum to ask, can a tranformational prestige class be added to a wiz/sor who already has taken enough levels to another transformationl prestige class(like both an acolyte of the skin and elemental savant or both, dragon disciple and green star adept or whatever else...)?
Escef 12-01-04, 09:45 AM	No, neither template can be applied to undead, and you have to be one or the other first, as they are both acquired templates. I suppose one could houserule a creature that has the powers of both, but it had better be unique, otherwise people will get very unhappy.
robertliguori 12-01-04, 09:46 AM	Yes. However, it will involve polymorph any object or a similar effect, because you need to be humanoid/monstrous humanoid to take either template.
runestar 12-04-04, 07:24 AM	No to the first question, unless you found some way to gain both templates simultaneously. And there's that nasty LA of +12 to contend with. If you want both of them to stack to gain the class features of both templates, I suggest creating a new template that incorporates both, since a lot of LA is wasted on redundant features that accrue when one embraces undeath. To the second, yeah, they would stack, but the end result would be ... interesting, to say the least. If a lich sorceror took levels in dragon disciple, would he become some sort of warped dracolich? Some of the transformational classes don't seem to blend well with undeath. An undead elemental??? The notion is mind-boggling, though the process of becoming one is straightforward enough by dnd mechanics.
KangsRegiment 12-04-04, 07:38 PM	For the second question, it really depends on the type the character's transforming into, as some types have precedence over others (as stated in Savage Species). For example, Outsiders, Undead, and Constructs have precedence over everything else. Thus, a lich with 10 levels of Dragon Disciple is still just an undead. If the types are of equal status, as in the case of a lich having 10 levels in Acolyte of the Skin or Green Star Adept, it's a DM judgment call. I personally would say that undead could be transformed into outsiders and constructs through a prestige class, but not the other way around.
Melpomene 12-04-04, 07:49 PM	Even when Vecna ascended to Godhood, he retained his undead type.
Slagger the Chuul 12-04-04, 10:50 PM	An undead elemental??? The notion is mind-boggling, though the process of becoming one is straightforward enough by dnd mechanics. And also done as a deliberate monster design, like the necromental template, the cinderspawn, desiccator, and voidwraith (all from Libris Mortis).