Can dragons take classes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can dragons take classes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Acs
12-03-04, 03:00 PM I herd somewhere that dragons can take classes etc. Is this true? If so, do they level up by gaining xp, just like any other normal pc or npc?
cwslyclgh
12-03-04, 03:02 PM yes and yes (Plus they still advance age catagories as they get older as well.)
obrysii
12-03-04, 05:45 PM ANYTHING with 3 Int or higher can gain levels.

That includes intelligent constructs, planets, and all things as that.
ermedic
12-03-04, 06:10 PM Yes, they can take levels just like any intelligent creature. Keep in mind, however, that a dragon has a level adjustment. Therefore, a wyrmling red dragon would have an ECL of 11 [(LE +4) + (HD 7)] plus however many character levels he took. Not a very playable PC.
Acs
12-03-04, 06:54 PM So if you just need a Int. of 3 or higher a familiar could take a class also, but it would have to split the xp with it's master.
obrysii
12-03-04, 07:34 PM There is a clause that states that familiars are an extension of their masters, and thus cannot take levels.
Acs
12-03-04, 07:36 PM What about animal companions?
LukiLoki
12-03-04, 07:50 PM So if you just need a Int. of 3 or higher a familiar could take a class also, but it would have to split the xp with it's master.
This sort of thing is DM's call all the way. I don't think there's any support in the core rules for the notion that any creature with an Int. score of 3 or higher can take class levels. If I am wrong, I will be happy to be educated on the matter. (I do not use Savage Species, don't know what forms of munchkiny madness may be in it, and I am not interested, so please do not refer to it if you think I'm wrong. I said CORE rules.)

In the monster books, they give LA for creatures that are considered "playable". Their criteria include opposable thumbs, which favors bipedal stature, as well as "human" intelligence and a resulting ECL under 20.

Dragons are okay by these criteria, but, as was pointed out, all but the smallest are going to give you an ECL >20.

Since familiars don't have opposable thumbs and their enhanced intelligence is a function of their relationship to the master, as a DM, I would say no way to familiars with character levels.

But that's me.
cwslyclgh
12-03-04, 08:28 PM That includes intelligent constructs, planets, and all things as that gotta watch out for those mars-sized monks....
Garith Dragonborn
12-03-04, 08:40 PM seriously I found a jupiter monk. unknown to me, asteroid belts are considered unarmed strikes, also are gigantic red storms, oh, and can't forget the poisonous gases.....
obrysii
12-04-04, 04:55 PM planets, plants, whichever. They're both big and alive ;)
Bane
12-04-04, 10:12 PM planets, plants, whichever. They're both big and alive
I am not aware of any planets that have been classified as living creatures. Please, enlighten me.

P.S. Not all plants are big. Have you ever heard of plankton? Or grass?
angryman
12-05-04, 09:47 AM Dragons can take levels but why would they? Each HD they can get (or get most of) 6+INT skills, 1d12HPs, all good saves, increased breath weapon damage/DC, spellcasting, increased fear aura and a size increase. Dragons are literally better spellcasters, and get physically tougher by just falling asleep for a few decades...so why would they bother to train?
obrysii
12-05-04, 09:57 AM Proficency with armor?

Proficency with weapons when in humanoid form?
Minister_for_Moral_Truth
12-05-04, 10:16 AM The ability to, as I belive the saying goes, "lay the smack down" upon their fore, both draconic and hunter?
d_nychus
12-05-04, 10:18 AM I am not aware of any planets that have been classified as living creatures. Please, enlighten me.

That's a joke about the Gaia theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaea_theory).
d_nychus
12-05-04, 10:21 AM Dragons can take levels but why would they? Each HD they can get (or get most of) 6+INT skills, 1d12HPs, all good saves, increased breath weapon damage/DC, spellcasting, increased fear aura and a size increase. Dragons are literally better spellcasters, and get physically tougher by just falling asleep for a few decades...so why would they bother to train?

Something to do while they are waiting on getting bigger? Remember, dragon HD increase with time, and nothing else. And that time can include centuries. If you can make a few average levels between getting your GOOD levels, why wouldn't you?
Ahnehnois
12-05-04, 10:25 AM Exactly. Dragons can get levels but their normal HD come for free with age, imparting a huge ECL. So they gain levels slowly. But I would never stat out a dragon without a few class levels.
Gez
12-05-04, 01:33 PM Note that, if a dragon takes sorcerer levels, it stacks with its innate sorcerer levels. So, a dragon with a natural caster level of 5, and 5 levels of sorcerer, would cast spells like a 10th-level sorcerer (but its familiar, if it has one, would only be as a 5th-level sorcerer's one).
Frost Mage
12-05-04, 08:05 PM Well, Draconomicon has some nice rules and whatnot for dragons gaining levels and age categories at the same time. But I'd also agree that it's the DM's call on that.
Grox
12-05-04, 08:11 PM Can dragons take classes? I suppose so but it's kind of a joke . . . I mean, who's going to tell a dragon that he just failed Calc II? :confused:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Acs 12-03-04, 03:00 PM	I herd somewhere that dragons can take classes etc. Is this true? If so, do they level up by gaining xp, just like any other normal pc or npc?
cwslyclgh 12-03-04, 03:02 PM	yes and yes (Plus they still advance age catagories as they get older as well.)
obrysii 12-03-04, 05:45 PM	ANYTHING with 3 Int or higher can gain levels. That includes intelligent constructs, planets, and all things as that.
ermedic 12-03-04, 06:10 PM	Yes, they can take levels just like any intelligent creature. Keep in mind, however, that a dragon has a level adjustment. Therefore, a wyrmling red dragon would have an ECL of 11 [(LE +4) + (HD 7)] plus however many character levels he took. Not a very playable PC.
Acs 12-03-04, 06:54 PM	So if you just need a Int. of 3 or higher a familiar could take a class also, but it would have to split the xp with it's master.
obrysii 12-03-04, 07:34 PM	There is a clause that states that familiars are an extension of their masters, and thus cannot take levels.
Acs 12-03-04, 07:36 PM	What about animal companions?
LukiLoki 12-03-04, 07:50 PM	So if you just need a Int. of 3 or higher a familiar could take a class also, but it would have to split the xp with it's master. This sort of thing is DM's call all the way. I don't think there's any support in the core rules for the notion that any creature with an Int. score of 3 or higher can take class levels. If I am wrong, I will be happy to be educated on the matter. (I do not use Savage Species, don't know what forms of munchkiny madness may be in it, and I am not interested, so please do not refer to it if you think I'm wrong. I said CORE rules.) In the monster books, they give LA for creatures that are considered "playable". Their criteria include opposable thumbs, which favors bipedal stature, as well as "human" intelligence and a resulting ECL under 20. Dragons are okay by these criteria, but, as was pointed out, all but the smallest are going to give you an ECL >20. Since familiars don't have opposable thumbs and their enhanced intelligence is a function of their relationship to the master, as a DM, I would say no way to familiars with character levels. But that's me.
cwslyclgh 12-03-04, 08:28 PM	That includes intelligent constructs, planets, and all things as that gotta watch out for those mars-sized monks....
Garith Dragonborn 12-03-04, 08:40 PM	seriously I found a jupiter monk. unknown to me, asteroid belts are considered unarmed strikes, also are gigantic red storms, oh, and can't forget the poisonous gases.....
obrysii 12-04-04, 04:55 PM	planets, plants, whichever. They're both big and alive ;)
Bane 12-04-04, 10:12 PM	planets, plants, whichever. They're both big and alive I am not aware of any planets that have been classified as living creatures. Please, enlighten me. P.S. Not all plants are big. Have you ever heard of plankton? Or grass?
angryman 12-05-04, 09:47 AM	Dragons can take levels but why would they? Each HD they can get (or get most of) 6+INT skills, 1d12HPs, all good saves, increased breath weapon damage/DC, spellcasting, increased fear aura and a size increase. Dragons are literally better spellcasters, and get physically tougher by just falling asleep for a few decades...so why would they bother to train?
obrysii 12-05-04, 09:57 AM	Proficency with armor? Proficency with weapons when in humanoid form?
Minister_for_Moral_Truth 12-05-04, 10:16 AM	The ability to, as I belive the saying goes, "lay the smack down" upon their fore, both draconic and hunter?
d_nychus 12-05-04, 10:18 AM	I am not aware of any planets that have been classified as living creatures. Please, enlighten me. That's a joke about the Gaia theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaea_theory).
d_nychus 12-05-04, 10:21 AM	Dragons can take levels but why would they? Each HD they can get (or get most of) 6+INT skills, 1d12HPs, all good saves, increased breath weapon damage/DC, spellcasting, increased fear aura and a size increase. Dragons are literally better spellcasters, and get physically tougher by just falling asleep for a few decades...so why would they bother to train? Something to do while they are waiting on getting bigger? Remember, dragon HD increase with time, and nothing else. And that time can include centuries. If you can make a few average levels between getting your GOOD levels, why wouldn't you?
Ahnehnois 12-05-04, 10:25 AM	Exactly. Dragons can get levels but their normal HD come for free with age, imparting a huge ECL. So they gain levels slowly. But I would never stat out a dragon without a few class levels.
Gez 12-05-04, 01:33 PM	Note that, if a dragon takes sorcerer levels, it stacks with its innate sorcerer levels. So, a dragon with a natural caster level of 5, and 5 levels of sorcerer, would cast spells like a 10th-level sorcerer (but its familiar, if it has one, would only be as a 5th-level sorcerer's one).
Frost Mage 12-05-04, 08:05 PM	Well, Draconomicon has some nice rules and whatnot for dragons gaining levels and age categories at the same time. But I'd also agree that it's the DM's call on that.
Grox 12-05-04, 08:11 PM	Can dragons take classes? I suppose so but it's kind of a joke . . . I mean, who's going to tell a dragon that he just failed Calc II? :confused: