Can I advance as a dragon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can I advance as a dragon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Khan the Destroyer
04-19-05, 10:59 AM If my human character were to have the Half-Dragon template, would I be able to advance as a dragon? Since my type is now dragon, could I simply gain a dragon hit die instead of gaining a level? I know it would most likely be sub-optimal, but I am just curious.
Ancient Wyrm
04-20-05, 12:41 PM What kind of dragon? Monster hit dice are similar in many respects for a given type, but they're not identical. The difference between a black dragon HD and a white dragon HD is kind of like that between a fighter and a paladin HD; same number, same skill points, same saves, but different class skills. (Yes, I know there are abilities attached to the classes' HD as well.) Anyway, HD are species-specific, not type-specific. You're not a particular species of dragon, so there are no rules for advancement or class skills, so no HD for you.

In any case, for the purposes of advancement a HD != a level. Yes, I know there're the Savage Species monster classes and the rules in the Draconomicon for aging a dragon PC, but those are strictly for PC balance purposes. In general, if a particular monster goes out, adventures for a while, and gains some experience, he's going to go up in a class level, not gain a HD. A monster doesn't get bigger and physically stronger by going out and killing things, but by time.
runestar
04-21-05, 02:27 AM I seriously doubt it, I don't think you would be able to capitalise on what little draconic blood that is coursing through your veins to become a full fledged dragon. You would continue advancing via character class. Perhaps you could try the half-dragon paragon.
Sildatorak
04-21-05, 04:25 AM Perhaps you could try the half-dragon paragon.

This is what I would recommend, as well. It is in Unearthed Arcana and gives you full BAB, two good saves, moderate skills skills, a d12 hit die, and some boosts to things that are somewhat nifty. I think it is probably better than 3 levels of fighter, but I'm unsure how it will compare to 3 levels of a martial class that actually gets worthwhile abilities. With sorcerous blood it could be part of the martial aspect of a gish build, though the LA of the template will probably completely undermine spell-casting ability.
Eliza_Stormwhisper
04-21-05, 04:56 AM (...) though the LA of the template will probably completely undermine spell-casting ability.

LA = the bane of all spellcasting classes
Khan the Destroyer
04-22-05, 02:27 PM I was thinking more of for a Gestalt campaign. Say you are a Half-Dragon sorcerer. On one side of the progression you take levels in Sorcerer. I am wondering if on the other side, since your type is now Dragon, can you simply take Dragon HD? Not to advance to a full-blown dragon or anything like that, but to gain the d12 HD, the 6+ skill points, all good saves, and good BAB. But I think Ancient Wyrm has a point that you do not gain HD through attaining enough XP.
ieattrollsforbreakfast
04-22-05, 02:58 PM You can't advance with monster hit dice unless it specifically says you can in the monster description. Since humans (or whatever you base race is, assuming its a core race), cannot advance by monster hit dice, a half-dragon sorceror cannot take dragon hit dice, whether or not he is going gestalt.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khan the Destroyer 04-19-05, 10:59 AM	If my human character were to have the Half-Dragon template, would I be able to advance as a dragon? Since my type is now dragon, could I simply gain a dragon hit die instead of gaining a level? I know it would most likely be sub-optimal, but I am just curious.
Ancient Wyrm 04-20-05, 12:41 PM	What kind of dragon? Monster hit dice are similar in many respects for a given type, but they're not identical. The difference between a black dragon HD and a white dragon HD is kind of like that between a fighter and a paladin HD; same number, same skill points, same saves, but different class skills. (Yes, I know there are abilities attached to the classes' HD as well.) Anyway, HD are species-specific, not type-specific. You're not a particular species of dragon, so there are no rules for advancement or class skills, so no HD for you. In any case, for the purposes of advancement a HD != a level. Yes, I know there're the Savage Species monster classes and the rules in the Draconomicon for aging a dragon PC, but those are strictly for PC balance purposes. In general, if a particular monster goes out, adventures for a while, and gains some experience, he's going to go up in a class level, not gain a HD. A monster doesn't get bigger and physically stronger by going out and killing things, but by time.
runestar 04-21-05, 02:27 AM	I seriously doubt it, I don't think you would be able to capitalise on what little draconic blood that is coursing through your veins to become a full fledged dragon. You would continue advancing via character class. Perhaps you could try the half-dragon paragon.
Sildatorak 04-21-05, 04:25 AM	Perhaps you could try the half-dragon paragon. This is what I would recommend, as well. It is in Unearthed Arcana and gives you full BAB, two good saves, moderate skills skills, a d12 hit die, and some boosts to things that are somewhat nifty. I think it is probably better than 3 levels of fighter, but I'm unsure how it will compare to 3 levels of a martial class that actually gets worthwhile abilities. With sorcerous blood it could be part of the martial aspect of a gish build, though the LA of the template will probably completely undermine spell-casting ability.
Eliza_Stormwhisper 04-21-05, 04:56 AM	(...) though the LA of the template will probably completely undermine spell-casting ability. LA = the bane of all spellcasting classes
Khan the Destroyer 04-22-05, 02:27 PM	I was thinking more of for a Gestalt campaign. Say you are a Half-Dragon sorcerer. On one side of the progression you take levels in Sorcerer. I am wondering if on the other side, since your type is now Dragon, can you simply take Dragon HD? Not to advance to a full-blown dragon or anything like that, but to gain the d12 HD, the 6+ skill points, all good saves, and good BAB. But I think Ancient Wyrm has a point that you do not gain HD through attaining enough XP.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 04-22-05, 02:58 PM	You can't advance with monster hit dice unless it specifically says you can in the monster description. Since humans (or whatever you base race is, assuming its a core race), cannot advance by monster hit dice, a half-dragon sorceror cannot take dragon hit dice, whether or not he is going gestalt.