can metallic dragons rust? [Archive] - Wizards Community

can metallic dragons rust? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hammerhead
03-08-05, 11:56 PM Can they if they dont keep clean? Also would a a rusting grasp spell harm them?
JabberWocky
03-08-05, 11:59 PM ...no. It's not to be taken literally, really; they're not made out of metal, it's more meant to describe the color of their scales.
Edymnion
03-09-05, 12:15 AM Exactly.
They're described as metallics because their scales just happen to look like that color of metal. A lizard with silver scales isn't going to corrode, they just happen to be the same color as silver.

And just to get technical, none of the metals that share names with the metallic dragons actually rust. Several of them will corrode over time (silver turns black, copper turns green, etc), but by defintion, only iron and steel can rust (as rust is, by definition, iron oxide).
Tenzhi
03-09-05, 12:30 AM "Rust" may definitively refer to any corrosion, especially that relating to the oxidization of metal, and of those oxidizations most notably ferric oxide. It does not solely refer to rusted iron.

And a lizard whose scales were silver due to silver mineral deposits might very well develop black spots. I seem to recall the 2E files or Council of Wyrms supplement mentioning that Silvers blacken with age and Coppers become green-tinged over time, though I could be mistaken.
JabberWocky
03-09-05, 12:44 AM Well, call me old-school, but I don't like my dragons literally being made out of things like that. I like the ol' flesh-and-bone variety. Even my crystal dragons are like that; their scales are colored like the crystals they favor, and some older wyrms have formations growing on their bodies. Some even culture them willingly; think of it sort of like having a pet rock, except they grow on your and are all pretty.
Johnny3D3D
03-09-05, 01:56 AM Just start using the Stainless Steel Dragons in your campaigns. :D
scwolf
03-09-05, 04:22 AM It's purely cosmetic, of course, but the scales of bronze and copper dragons do develop a patina as the dragon ages.
RavinRay
03-09-05, 04:28 AM I seem to recall that one of the 2E books (Cult of the Dragon) mentions that metallic dragon scales do have minutes quantities of the metal they are named after. There's this one cheeky copper dragon that developed the spell tarnish (a reverse spell, burnish was also mentioned) that produced verdigris on a rival dragon's scales. The effect is temporary, though.

If we're gonna apply real-world science in a fantasy setting...

This would mean that bronze and brass dragons have metallic alloys in their scales, because both are alloys of copper with other metals (mainly tin and zinc, respectively). Silver is also tarnished by sulfur (hence silverware should not be used with eggs) so it's curious that silver dragons should have acid immunity; sulfuric acid might damage them.
Olly
03-09-05, 04:42 AM And just to get technical, none of the metals that share names with the metallic dragons actually rust. Several of them will corrode over time (silver turns black, copper turns green, etc), but by defintion, only iron and steel can rust (as rust is, by definition, iron oxide).

Hmm... That's interesting... [Strokes chin all Jack Sparrow-like] That's very interesting...

Wouldn't it be cool if some dragons' scales did corrode and change colour over time, though? Maybe it affects their minds in negative ways, much like an old person would go senile?

I'm already getting great ideas for terrified villages running up to the PCs, claiming that a great, green wyrm was terrorising their village, only for them to find out that it was in fact, an old, grumpy, but well-meaning copper dragon suffering from the ill effects of age on his scales, lashing out in anger, confusion and frustration!

They'd never see that one coming! :evillaugh
Mirtek
03-09-05, 07:53 AM Wouldn't it be cool if some dragons' scales did corrode and change colour over time, though?

They actually do already. Scales of very old black dragons turn purple with age and scales of red dragons become white at the edges.

Just like human hair changes with age
Slagger the Chuul
03-09-05, 08:02 AM You also have to make a particular exception for the rust dragon, which is sort of naturally rusted.
Ogre4Hire
03-09-05, 01:42 PM Just start using the Stainless Steel Dragons in your campaigns. :D

Goes well with Stainless Steel Rats.:D
Shemeska the Marauder
03-09-05, 02:00 PM You also have to make a particular exception for the rust dragon, which is sort of naturally rusted.

God I adore Rust Dragons... nothing says DM love like a trip to Acheron, burrowed tunnels through continent sized metallic cubes, and a pack of rust dragon hunting you while all the while the plane itself tries to turn you into stone. :D
Drachasor
03-09-05, 02:16 PM The Dragonlance setting has (or had at least in 1E/2E) a very nice creation story for Dragons along these lines. Paladine and Takhisis originally made 5 dragons together: Iron, Copper....I am a bit hazy on the rest, I think Nickel was there, and I know the only metal in common with the Good dragons is copper. When Takhisis corrupted these dragons into her servants (iron->red, etc), the Copper dragon refused to follow her until the, now blue, dragon whispered doubts and lies into its ear (copper->green). When Paladin remade dragons to follow him he honored the Copper dragon by recreating it.

Anyhow, it's nice...too bad I don't remember the other colors.

-Drachasor
Ogre4Hire
03-09-05, 02:36 PM God I adore Rust Dragons... nothing says DM love like a trip to Acheron, burrowed tunnels through continent sized metallic cubes, and a pack of rust dragon hunting you while all the while the plane itself tries to turn you into stone. :D

You forgot the Decapitating Razor Ice Storms. :ghosted:
snowlynx
03-23-05, 02:29 PM One of the dragon gods in the draconomicon has 'tarnished' scales (some say due to lack of care, the blurb explains.) It's the god of justice. I don't know if that's a trait unique to him, or if all dragons can get their scales tarnished/rusted/whatever if they don't groom them properly. Regardless, it's probably not real rust or tarnish.

Also, the draconomicon says rust dragons look like metallic dragons, only rusted. Makes me wonder about their origins....
Shemeska the Marauder
03-23-05, 06:11 PM Also, the draconomicon says rust dragons look like metallic dragons, only rusted. Makes me wonder about their origins....

Previously, Rust Dragon weren't 'true' Dragons since they had faceted insectile eyes and vaguely insectlike wings. YMMV.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hammerhead 03-08-05, 11:56 PM	Can they if they dont keep clean? Also would a a rusting grasp spell harm them?
JabberWocky 03-08-05, 11:59 PM	...no. It's not to be taken literally, really; they're not made out of metal, it's more meant to describe the color of their scales.
Edymnion 03-09-05, 12:15 AM	Exactly. They're described as metallics because their scales just happen to look like that color of metal. A lizard with silver scales isn't going to corrode, they just happen to be the same color as silver. And just to get technical, none of the metals that share names with the metallic dragons actually rust. Several of them will corrode over time (silver turns black, copper turns green, etc), but by defintion, only iron and steel can rust (as rust is, by definition, iron oxide).
Tenzhi 03-09-05, 12:30 AM	"Rust" may definitively refer to any corrosion, especially that relating to the oxidization of metal, and of those oxidizations most notably ferric oxide. It does not solely refer to rusted iron. And a lizard whose scales were silver due to silver mineral deposits might very well develop black spots. I seem to recall the 2E files or Council of Wyrms supplement mentioning that Silvers blacken with age and Coppers become green-tinged over time, though I could be mistaken.
JabberWocky 03-09-05, 12:44 AM	Well, call me old-school, but I don't like my dragons literally being made out of things like that. I like the ol' flesh-and-bone variety. Even my crystal dragons are like that; their scales are colored like the crystals they favor, and some older wyrms have formations growing on their bodies. Some even culture them willingly; think of it sort of like having a pet rock, except they grow on your and are all pretty.
Johnny3D3D 03-09-05, 01:56 AM	Just start using the Stainless Steel Dragons in your campaigns. :D
scwolf 03-09-05, 04:22 AM	It's purely cosmetic, of course, but the scales of bronze and copper dragons do develop a patina as the dragon ages.
RavinRay 03-09-05, 04:28 AM	I seem to recall that one of the 2E books (Cult of the Dragon) mentions that metallic dragon scales do have minutes quantities of the metal they are named after. There's this one cheeky copper dragon that developed the spell tarnish (a reverse spell, burnish was also mentioned) that produced verdigris on a rival dragon's scales. The effect is temporary, though. If we're gonna apply real-world science in a fantasy setting... This would mean that bronze and brass dragons have metallic alloys in their scales, because both are alloys of copper with other metals (mainly tin and zinc, respectively). Silver is also tarnished by sulfur (hence silverware should not be used with eggs) so it's curious that silver dragons should have acid immunity; sulfuric acid might damage them.
Olly 03-09-05, 04:42 AM	And just to get technical, none of the metals that share names with the metallic dragons actually rust. Several of them will corrode over time (silver turns black, copper turns green, etc), but by defintion, only iron and steel can rust (as rust is, by definition, iron oxide). Hmm... That's interesting... [Strokes chin all Jack Sparrow-like] That's very interesting... Wouldn't it be cool if some dragons' scales did corrode and change colour over time, though? Maybe it affects their minds in negative ways, much like an old person would go senile? I'm already getting great ideas for terrified villages running up to the PCs, claiming that a great, green wyrm was terrorising their village, only for them to find out that it was in fact, an old, grumpy, but well-meaning copper dragon suffering from the ill effects of age on his scales, lashing out in anger, confusion and frustration! They'd never see that one coming! :evillaugh
Mirtek 03-09-05, 07:53 AM	Wouldn't it be cool if some dragons' scales did corrode and change colour over time, though? They actually do already. Scales of very old black dragons turn purple with age and scales of red dragons become white at the edges. Just like human hair changes with age
Slagger the Chuul 03-09-05, 08:02 AM	You also have to make a particular exception for the rust dragon, which is sort of naturally rusted.
Ogre4Hire 03-09-05, 01:42 PM	Just start using the Stainless Steel Dragons in your campaigns. :D Goes well with Stainless Steel Rats.:D
Shemeska the Marauder 03-09-05, 02:00 PM	You also have to make a particular exception for the rust dragon, which is sort of naturally rusted. God I adore Rust Dragons... nothing says DM love like a trip to Acheron, burrowed tunnels through continent sized metallic cubes, and a pack of rust dragon hunting you while all the while the plane itself tries to turn you into stone. :D
Drachasor 03-09-05, 02:16 PM	The Dragonlance setting has (or had at least in 1E/2E) a very nice creation story for Dragons along these lines. Paladine and Takhisis originally made 5 dragons together: Iron, Copper....I am a bit hazy on the rest, I think Nickel was there, and I know the only metal in common with the Good dragons is copper. When Takhisis corrupted these dragons into her servants (iron->red, etc), the Copper dragon refused to follow her until the, now blue, dragon whispered doubts and lies into its ear (copper->green). When Paladin remade dragons to follow him he honored the Copper dragon by recreating it. Anyhow, it's nice...too bad I don't remember the other colors. -Drachasor
Ogre4Hire 03-09-05, 02:36 PM	God I adore Rust Dragons... nothing says DM love like a trip to Acheron, burrowed tunnels through continent sized metallic cubes, and a pack of rust dragon hunting you while all the while the plane itself tries to turn you into stone. :D You forgot the Decapitating Razor Ice Storms. :ghosted:
snowlynx 03-23-05, 02:29 PM	One of the dragon gods in the draconomicon has 'tarnished' scales (some say due to lack of care, the blurb explains.) It's the god of justice. I don't know if that's a trait unique to him, or if all dragons can get their scales tarnished/rusted/whatever if they don't groom them properly. Regardless, it's probably not real rust or tarnish. Also, the draconomicon says rust dragons look like metallic dragons, only rusted. Makes me wonder about their origins....
Shemeska the Marauder 03-23-05, 06:11 PM	Also, the draconomicon says rust dragons look like metallic dragons, only rusted. Makes me wonder about their origins.... Previously, Rust Dragon weren't 'true' Dragons since they had faceted insectile eyes and vaguely insectlike wings. YMMV.