Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EvilMrStubbe 07-18-05, 12:19 AM	post a quick description of the zombie templates in that book? It'll help me decide if I should order it. Thanks much.
angelshelper81 07-18-05, 01:03 AM	There are 5 zombie variants, and no templates (unless I've forgotten about something...) And I quote: Bloodthirsty Zombie: The bloodthirsty zombie doesn't just want to destroy you, it wants to crack open your skull and feed on the goo inside. Diseased Zombie: What better carrier for a horrible disease than a rotting corpse? Fast Zombie: Slow zombies are funny. They're easy to escape on foot and can't run at all. After an encounter with fast zombies, the characters won't be laughing. Hunting Zombie: It's pretty easy to hide from a normal zombie, but hunter zombies can follow and find enemies with the power of scent. Unkillable Zombie: The zombies in the monster manual are tough, but an unkillable zombie is nigh-unstopable. ---- If that's all you're interested in, it's not worth buying. If you're going to be using other undead, it's probably worth a look, since there's some pretty interesting things in there. I like the good undead, myself.
pita 07-18-05, 02:49 PM	There are how to play an undead, pictures of cool things(i loved the mohrg barbarian), and prestige classes for playing with, as, and against undead. Along with that trhere are some new monsters, and even though i havent seen them, im assuming new feats.
EvilMrStubbe 07-18-05, 04:12 PM	is the disease carrier like romero zombies? I like all undead but right now I'm looking for how D&D officially handles proper romero zombies instead of the organic constructs we already have, those just aren't as scary.
urial angel of death 07-18-05, 04:29 PM	no they just carry onr of the generic diseases from the DMG
EvilMrStubbe 07-18-05, 04:40 PM	then I'm not getting the libris mortis, thanks for the help
pita 07-19-05, 10:12 AM	if your looking for diseases BoVD has some great ones.
Wyrd Bearer 07-19-05, 01:05 PM	Never buy a book just because it has one thing that you may be interested in, otherwise you'll end up with a book you regret paying full price for, just like how I regret paying full price for the BoED. Anyway, I don't know what romero zombies are, but it sounds like you do. Just make the monster yourself instead of buying a book. Though if you do like throwing undead at your PCs or just like playing undead, Libris Mortis is good for you, though it should really be called "The Necromancer's Toybox."
EvilMrStubbe 07-21-05, 12:49 AM	a romero zombie is the first zombie that a majority of america knew. It's the zombies from George Romero's (night, dawn, day, land) of the dead movies. The man started the Genre so I'm more fond of his plus they creep me out big time. (Now you also know the Romero's hearse reference from GTA) I've stated them out by tweeking the zombie template from the MM, I'm just looking for others interpretations so I can compare since I suck so horribly at balancing power. the biggest problem was the whole can't die without headshot, but I guess I'm just goin to give em hp and when they drop to 0 the body is useless, but if someone steps into the square that the head is in the zombie can bite. crit threats are headshots and instant death and a coup de grace auto hits and kills a zombie. basically what they do is look for ppl to grab then try and bite(with a successful grapple check they can try a bite for free) if someone gets bit they automatically will die at some point in the next 24 hours just to arise and try and eat other humanoids thus repeating the cycle I'll post my template once I find the notebook and my MM
Wyrd Bearer 07-21-05, 11:42 AM	Heh, its ironic that for all I love using the undead in games, I'm never seen that many zombie movies, definitely none of the Romero flicks. From the sound of it, you have the "hit head for kill" mechanic to work; I once came up with a skeleton template where the skeletons would reform out of the shattered boldies of the fallen skellies (if two died, one would raise up a round later) and only a critical hit (a blow to the skull) would keep them from reforming. They were inspired by the opening credits of the old Conan cartoon. However, the fact that the Romero zombies raise up later to eat other humanoids makes them sound like they are mechanically closer to ghouls. Maybe try altering the standard ghoul and see if that is to your liking?
Splinter 07-21-05, 12:12 PM	There are several ways to dispose of the Livind Dead, not Zombies from the The Night of the Living Dead The first and most effective is to shoot the living dead in the head. The most effective means to dispose of one when you have no gun is to beat it, or burn it. But remember there is a difrence between zombies and the living dead.
EvilMrStubbe 07-22-05, 05:21 PM	um, I'm not for sure but I think both of those methods when seen in NotLD damaged the brain, I'm pretty sure the black guy tended to strike the heads when he beat em to death, and fire reaches a temp that literally cooks the brain making it useless, but remember that it takes at least a minute and a half of completely being on fire for human muscles to be useless, so unless it cooks the brain really fast(don't remember temp necessary) you've now made a walking fireball that doesn't feel the fire and so still wants to eat you which means if your fortification is flamable you've just buggered yourself horribly. Keep in mind I haven't seen the movie in a few months so I don't remember it, which means you may be right. but within a week I'll have watched it again (gotta find my copy) and I'll get back to you on whether you're right on the beating it being good or if he just beat their heads in, but till then I'm still pretty sure that all things that killed them involved brain damage.
Splinter 07-22-05, 08:51 PM	um, I'm not for sure but I think both of those methods when seen in NotLD damaged the brain. You may be right, i haven't seen the movie in years. However of all the lines i remember it is that police chief saying over the T.V. is "if you can't shoot em, either beat em or burn em"
EvilMrStubbe 07-22-05, 11:41 PM	I just had someone confirm that it was brain damage, but just to be safe I'll watch it again, not that it really matters cuz I plan upon keepin in brain damage.
EvilMrStubbe 07-22-05, 11:56 PM	Keep in mind that I suck at this and it's my first draft so don't expect miracles my Romero Zombie template, we'll call it death makes friends(I got nothing better) it's based off the original zombie template in the MM: "Romero Zombie" is an acquired template that can be acquired by any corporeal humanoid (besides undead) that has a skelatal system (referred to hereafter as the base creature and has contracted "zombie plague"(again I've got nothing better, so as usual suggestions would be good). Size and type:Type changes to undead and retains any subtypes besides alignment subtypes and subtypes that indicate kind HD: Drop any HD from class levels double number of HD left and raise them to d12 Speed: Base Creatures with a fly speed lose it. AC: +3 Base Attack: a zombie has a BAB equal to 1/2 it's level Attacks:Zombie retains all natural weapons manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature, a medium zombie also gains a bite attack (1d3) if it has a mouth, if not medium scale to size Special attacks: zombie plague(another time I could use a better name), all special attacks of base creature are lost. Special qualities: A zombie loses most special qualities of the base creature. It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve it's melee or ranged attacks. A zombie also gains vital organ (hey, yet another time I could use a name), {Immune to any form of mind control or anything else that effects behavior, besides turning and the like}<could someone put this in rule lawyer-ese for me, with turning they can only be destroyed or forced to cower no commanding. Also deadly meat Saves: Base save bonuses are Fort 1/2 HD + 2, Ref +1/3 HD Will +1/3 HD abilities: STR+2 Dex-2 (if a zombie is over a month or week old rigor mortis has kicked in making it +4 to STR and -4 to dex) No CON or INT score, its WIS changes to 10, and it's CHA changes to 1 Skills: NONE but due to not needing oxygen zombies can walk on the bottom of a body of water at 1/2 of move rate, a zombie that's old enough for rigor mortis has those pesky gases that make a body you hide under water try to return to surface so they gain a swim speed of 5ft. while losing the ability to sink to the bottom. Feats: zombie loses all feats of base creature and gains toughness Improved Grapple even if though it doesn't have the requirements. Environment: anywhere food is organization: Un treasure: as base creature Alignment: Neutral (eating alone is neutral, if they understood intelligent food then they would be evil) Advancement: none LA: who wants to be this mindless thing Combat zombies are very simple creatures. All goals involve finding humanoid food, then catching it, then eating it, then returning to step one. if a zombie doesn't know where a humanoid is it will wander around aimlessly until it gets an idea of where it could be. then it tries to attack, usually with a grapple which it then follows up with a free bite (at +2 to hit per other zombie grappling) if the grapple succeeded. (here's where I'm most uncertain because I'm trying to cause true fear that a player will lose a character just by poor rolling or planning or for millions of other bad news reasons. But still give PCs a long fight till they become zombies.) Zombie plague:upon being bitten the DM makes a Fort save for the PC in secret with the difficulty growing by 2 per bite. Based upon how well or poorly they do they have a set time before DM starts making will saves for player to remain in control(need help figuring out how to run that part). DC on will saves increase every save by 1. after first will save 2nd comes in an hour, 3rd 30 minutes after that, 4th 10 minutes, 5th every minute, then every round. Before becoming an undead anyone who has zombie plague can be restored with a simple remove disease spell, after the turn it MAY be possible with a wish or miracle. A character killed by a zombie bite is immune to remove disease and rises 1d4 rounds later unless someone coup de graces them. NPCs for ease on a lazy DM get a standard (hour/HD)+Fort mod with time being divided by the number of bites before a round by round will save With no rising difficulty, or as a plot device for the evil DM :) Deadly Meat:zombie meat kills anything that tries to eat it no save no HD limit vital organ: This undead has an organ that can be used to a skilled combatant's advantage. If it's brain suffers ANY damage the zombie is destroyed, however this is a double edged sword and the zombie cannot be destroyed by normal damage. If a zombie is reduced to 0 hp it's body is merely chopped to bits and the head still functions which means that anyone who enters the square is attacked by the zombies head at a -2 penalty on it's attack roll. Should the zombie be reduced to 0 hp by being burned then the brain is cooked and the zombie is dead. Any critical threat is considered to have damaged the head thus being brain damage and thus killing the zombie. Sneak attacks, (that duelist ability), and anything else that does more damage due to character aiming for vital spots; once the character understands that the brain is weak, can be used to strike the head, as long as 1 dmg is done in that attack the brain is damaged and thus the zombie is dead. if a character has precise shot then they automatically get headshots on a successful hit. A coup de grace auto hits and kills the zombies as well.
Algorithm_X 07-23-05, 12:33 AM	Instead of adding changes to the zombie template try changing ghoul into a that is slower and mindless version. Then you can then have an 'evolved' version that can has a low int and an undead version of 'wild empathy' maybe called "Dark Empathy". Against mindless undead getting thier attitude to helpful equal controlling them.
EvilMrStubbe 07-23-05, 02:02 AM	nah, I'm ok, that's not what I'm after, I want independant stupid zombies, you know like the romero ones I've spoken of in above posts.
cowdragon 07-23-05, 04:07 AM	If it'll help, they do have a "savage progressions" type section for selected undead. I personally love the book. Although my wife uses it more than I as she loves her True Necromancers. The Cowdragon :mage:
Earthbeard 07-23-05, 10:24 AM	Have you thought of making them the Living Dead, instead of actaul undead, thwarting the clerics abilites to Turn/Rebuke, also that could make them immune to a lot of what harms undead, of course the players could see this as a too tough challenge or become frustrated when they don't die, but so do the victims, when they don't hit the zombies in the head, in the films. Mechanics wise undead, are mostly fuelled by negative energy, but i see romeros undead as animated corpses rather than infused animated corpses, if that makes any sense? ie, cleric casts animate dead, to raise them with negative energy as automatous undead, where as these zombies are more from a disease, that kills and animates. Of course breaking from zombies being undead mechanic can have severe ramifications, but i think the players, tense and agitated everytime they fight these creatures would pay off in the long run, of course don't tell them, but they probably will figure it out, from your self confessed love of mr romeros films. Why not use for your own sake, just use the normal Zombie template, just add there infectious bite in as a extra ability, and the head shot ruling? i mean looking at it dnd zombies move slowly, fairly strong etc, just the same as romeros they just don't raise you as one of them if your killed by them. A few changes in stats can be in order, instead of zombie bash ability, change it to bite etc? You've got the basis already here for yourself, just alter a few abilities on the Zombie template and off you go, should balance itself out really. Make bite do less damage than bash, reducing to 0 hp is pretty normal anyway, so the head shot, isn't really much different. I'm rambling, i know, hopefully the above makes sense? I think, you need to break the mold/idea that dnd zombies arn't romero zombies and just alter them, rather than make a new type etc? Of course my idea of making them living dead rather than undead? may need a few tweakings on balance but i shouldn't see why not? read the details for Orcworts, from the sundew plant or soemthing, there mindless creatures? lots of none undead mindless slave thinsg liek that from plants, sorry don't have MM in front of me. Hope any of that helps?
sophocles 07-23-05, 10:47 AM	Nice Sig Pita
sophocles 07-23-05, 10:51 AM	just dropping in my 2gil for zombies (only) i would echo that this is not the appropriate book - though it does have some great info [ideas] previously mentioned... if you looking for a book to enhance your playing experience as it relates to the living and the undead... this is definately the book for you. The True Necromance is my fav... and i've created an Epic TN demilich enhancing the progression of the TN. She's friggin awesome. Interested? Let me know I can post her.
Flayer 07-23-05, 03:29 PM	ROMERO!!!! zombies kick ***** iwould make them immune to all damage but fire, critical hits and called shots to the head make any attack that deals more than 10 point of damage knock them back they take double damage from fire all crits hit them in the head killing automatically instead of making a dc check every so many round make there bite attack 1d6dam/wounding ability 1d3 every round until victem dies then rises 1d4 rounds later as a zombie i would make there cha a little higher i have been wanting to run asession or two were the pc are in a town that gets over run by the zombies if they dont figure out how to kill the zombies you could have an npc kill one and have a couple get bite and turn into zombies when they have to hold up somewhere i would also make them immune to all turning attempts and all spells that controll undead you could us this idea as a high lvl game where the zombies turn out to be some new type of undead created by orcus btw havent seen land of the dead had somebody tell me it was stupid but they never seen the other three movies is it any good
EvilMrStubbe 08-03-05, 08:16 PM	I myself enjoyed it, but I know some ppl that didn't like it, of course all things zombie make me happy, I'd have preferred the zombies staying dumb but eh at least it follows what we learned in Day