Can Spawns create Spawns?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can Spawns create Spawns?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
warrior-poet
02-14-06, 12:12 PM My DM recently turned one of my PC's into a wraith (maybe I should stop jumping up and down when I score a crit). At first I was dismayed, but now I am intrigued...
One thing has come up. My PC has created a few spawn. When my PC's spawn kill someone/thing---do they rise up as spawn as well?
If so, are they directly under my PC's control, or under my 1st generation spawn's control (and hence indirectly under my PC's control)??

Thoughts?
Vedic Cold
02-14-06, 12:22 PM The spawn of a wraith rise with all the commensurate powers of a true wraith, meaning they would be capable of creating spawn of their own. Which means, theoretically, that you would be in indirect control of any 3rd generation spawn. Which of course if one of the reasons most DMs wouldn't let their players be a wraith. I recall reading something about a limit on how many HD of spawn one undead creature can control (not sure where to find it just now, probably Libris Mortis). But in the case of a wraith, your spawn create spawn of their own, who create spawn of their own, etc. ad nauseum. Nastynastynasty. I wouldn't expect your DM to let you pull that off if I were you, though. It shouldn't take long for him to realize the drastic potential. A couple of dead goblin tribes = an army of wraiths under a PC's control. Not a good thing.
warrior-poet
02-14-06, 12:35 PM The max # of spawn is 2xPC's Hit Dice. My PC was fifth level---so ten spawn.
I LIKE your response----does anyone have a counter arguement?

My only concern is that in the write up of Vampire Spawn (the only in-depth writeup of any spawn I can find), there is no mention that they can create their own spawn.
cwslyclgh
02-14-06, 02:43 PM wraiths retain NONE of thier former abilities so your PC's level does not matter in the slightest, the wraith wouyld have the HD of a wraith in the MM, and its limit would be based upon the wraith HD.
warrior-poet
02-14-06, 03:13 PM wraiths retain NONE of thier former abilities so your PC's level does not matter in the slightest, the wraith wouyld have the HD of a wraith in the MM, and its limit would be based upon the wraith HD.
I am not sure you are right. I am applying the Wraith template from Savage Species. The template does not say that a high level character (or my little wussy boy) would drop down to a Wraith's HD. It DOES say "All the character's Hit Dice change to d12's". This would seem to indicate that a PC would keep its level. The template further goes on to say that the wraith can have a maximum of 2xHD/level of spawn.

There is a difference between retaining abilities, and retaining levels.

More to the point, this thread is about Spawns and their (possible) progeny, not about the daddy wraith.
cwslyclgh
02-14-06, 03:43 PM you did not say anything previously about apply the wriath template from savage species, you just said that the PC was turned into a wraith... if you did use the (IMO stupid, I mean come on, a 1st level commoner wraith has the same CR as the normal MM model despite having many less HD... gimme a break) wraith template from SS, then you would indeed retain your HD.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
warrior-poet 02-14-06, 12:12 PM	My DM recently turned one of my PC's into a wraith (maybe I should stop jumping up and down when I score a crit). At first I was dismayed, but now I am intrigued... One thing has come up. My PC has created a few spawn. When my PC's spawn kill someone/thing---do they rise up as spawn as well? If so, are they directly under my PC's control, or under my 1st generation spawn's control (and hence indirectly under my PC's control)?? Thoughts?
Vedic Cold 02-14-06, 12:22 PM	The spawn of a wraith rise with all the commensurate powers of a true wraith, meaning they would be capable of creating spawn of their own. Which means, theoretically, that you would be in indirect control of any 3rd generation spawn. Which of course if one of the reasons most DMs wouldn't let their players be a wraith. I recall reading something about a limit on how many HD of spawn one undead creature can control (not sure where to find it just now, probably Libris Mortis). But in the case of a wraith, your spawn create spawn of their own, who create spawn of their own, etc. ad nauseum. Nastynastynasty. I wouldn't expect your DM to let you pull that off if I were you, though. It shouldn't take long for him to realize the drastic potential. A couple of dead goblin tribes = an army of wraiths under a PC's control. Not a good thing.
warrior-poet 02-14-06, 12:35 PM	The max # of spawn is 2xPC's Hit Dice. My PC was fifth level---so ten spawn. I LIKE your response----does anyone have a counter arguement? My only concern is that in the write up of Vampire Spawn (the only in-depth writeup of any spawn I can find), there is no mention that they can create their own spawn.
cwslyclgh 02-14-06, 02:43 PM	wraiths retain NONE of thier former abilities so your PC's level does not matter in the slightest, the wraith wouyld have the HD of a wraith in the MM, and its limit would be based upon the wraith HD.
warrior-poet 02-14-06, 03:13 PM	wraiths retain NONE of thier former abilities so your PC's level does not matter in the slightest, the wraith wouyld have the HD of a wraith in the MM, and its limit would be based upon the wraith HD. I am not sure you are right. I am applying the Wraith template from Savage Species. The template does not say that a high level character (or my little wussy boy) would drop down to a Wraith's HD. It DOES say "All the character's Hit Dice change to d12's". This would seem to indicate that a PC would keep its level. The template further goes on to say that the wraith can have a maximum of 2xHD/level of spawn. There is a difference between retaining abilities, and retaining levels. More to the point, this thread is about Spawns and their (possible) progeny, not about the daddy wraith.
cwslyclgh 02-14-06, 03:43 PM	you did not say anything previously about apply the wriath template from savage species, you just said that the PC was turned into a wraith... if you did use the (IMO stupid, I mean come on, a 1st level commoner wraith has the same CR as the normal MM model despite having many less HD... gimme a break) wraith template from SS, then you would indeed retain your HD.