can you grapple an ooze? [Archive] - Wizards Community

can you grapple an ooze? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chris7476
02-26-04, 01:22 PM The intelligence of this action aside, is it possible? I know there is nothing in the rules that says you can't but it just seems to me an ooze would slide right through your grasp.

This question actually came up because I am sort of working on a rewrite/revision of the Oozemaster and it gets an ability called Malleability which allows it to squeeze through inch-wide cracks. It seems this would make any attempt to grapple it useless.
Thomar_of_Uointer
02-26-04, 01:38 PM I'd say that they get a very high bonus to Escape Artist checks, that's all.
moosekickedmysisterstoof
02-26-04, 01:44 PM In answer to your question, yes I can grapple an ooze. I have before when I was walking through Burmese jungle. I went to go rescue a tiger from one of those bamboo pits when suddenly, an ooze pounced on me. I didn't have to to react so I grabbed the ooze by the pseudopods and decided to make my headbutt do real damage instead of subdual. So, with a few of my patented "Woodpecker Headbutt" attacks, I killed it, though I was badly burned by the acid. I hope I was of some help!
lukelightning
02-26-04, 01:49 PM But is there a rule about it? Not that I can find. Technically oozes aren't really that oozy; they can't change shape or squeeze through cracks.

Originally posted by Thomar of Uointer
I'd say that they get a very high bonus to Escape Artist checks, that's all.
Kingrames
02-26-04, 02:38 PM Do you really honestly think it would be impossible to walk up to a gelatinous cube and wrestle it? it's not like it would slip through your fingers or anything.

I say any attempt to grapple an ooze automatically succeeds in the ooze grappling YOU. Thus, it is a bad idea.
lugnut71
02-26-04, 03:53 PM I guess yes theorically one could but it doesn't bother an ooze since you can't really hold it down. Also it puts you in the postion that the ooze wanted anyways close to it. Along these same lines oozes make limbs as they need them so you really can't pin it's limbs.
lukelightning
02-26-04, 03:57 PM Of course the question is can you grapple an ooze. Whether or not it's a good idea is a different issue. Me, I prefer not to grapple things that do continuous acid damage.
lugnut71
02-26-04, 03:59 PM I was kind of thinking about that myself. Not to forget all the paralysis checks against the G-cube.
chris7476
02-26-04, 04:02 PM The problem is that this is completely in the house rule realm. As stated in the MM pg. 313: "An ooze is an amorphous or mutable creature..."

How do you grapple a creature without a definite form? If you try to grapple an ooze, how do you distinguish who is the grappler and who is the grapplee? Grappling to me is very similar to critical strikes or sneak attack. Grappling is using pressure points, joints, etc. If the creature has no vitals,

I think I would rule that you cannot deal damage to an ooze with a grapple check. You can only try to escape.
lugnut71
02-26-04, 04:05 PM More thoughts: Most oozes run from large to huge size with a few even bigger. A lot of them you can't even hurt while grappling. So really should it even matter if you can or can't since nobody in their right mind would. (None of my players are in their right mind so I think they would try it.)
Prodigy
02-26-04, 04:45 PM The Ooze and or Gelatinous Cube etc. Do attack using pseudopods and do have a grapple rating and attack in the monster Manual 3.5. I would assume this means you can grapple with them...In fact most oozes have an improved grab special attack...

You really want to get excited....catch a gelatinous cube "flatfooted" when he clearly has no feet...

The point..none... You can grapple an ooze like any other creature with a grapple attack of it's own.

Prodigy.
Boondoggle
02-26-04, 05:55 PM Smashing an ooze with a mace makes no sense conceptually, either, but it is a rather effective in game method of dealing with them.

I think, for game balance, grappling should work fine. In fact, I would give them a rather large racial bonus to grapple checks due to the fact that they can so easily engulf opponents.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chris7476 02-26-04, 01:22 PM	The intelligence of this action aside, is it possible? I know there is nothing in the rules that says you can't but it just seems to me an ooze would slide right through your grasp. This question actually came up because I am sort of working on a rewrite/revision of the Oozemaster and it gets an ability called Malleability which allows it to squeeze through inch-wide cracks. It seems this would make any attempt to grapple it useless.
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-26-04, 01:38 PM	I'd say that they get a very high bonus to Escape Artist checks, that's all.
moosekickedmysisterstoof 02-26-04, 01:44 PM	In answer to your question, yes I can grapple an ooze. I have before when I was walking through Burmese jungle. I went to go rescue a tiger from one of those bamboo pits when suddenly, an ooze pounced on me. I didn't have to to react so I grabbed the ooze by the pseudopods and decided to make my headbutt do real damage instead of subdual. So, with a few of my patented "Woodpecker Headbutt" attacks, I killed it, though I was badly burned by the acid. I hope I was of some help!
lukelightning 02-26-04, 01:49 PM	But is there a rule about it? Not that I can find. Technically oozes aren't really that oozy; they can't change shape or squeeze through cracks. Originally posted by Thomar of Uointer I'd say that they get a very high bonus to Escape Artist checks, that's all.
Kingrames 02-26-04, 02:38 PM	Do you really honestly think it would be impossible to walk up to a gelatinous cube and wrestle it? it's not like it would slip through your fingers or anything. I say any attempt to grapple an ooze automatically succeeds in the ooze grappling YOU. Thus, it is a bad idea.
lugnut71 02-26-04, 03:53 PM	I guess yes theorically one could but it doesn't bother an ooze since you can't really hold it down. Also it puts you in the postion that the ooze wanted anyways close to it. Along these same lines oozes make limbs as they need them so you really can't pin it's limbs.
lukelightning 02-26-04, 03:57 PM	Of course the question is can you grapple an ooze. Whether or not it's a good idea is a different issue. Me, I prefer not to grapple things that do continuous acid damage.
lugnut71 02-26-04, 03:59 PM	I was kind of thinking about that myself. Not to forget all the paralysis checks against the G-cube.
chris7476 02-26-04, 04:02 PM	The problem is that this is completely in the house rule realm. As stated in the MM pg. 313: "An ooze is an amorphous or mutable creature..." How do you grapple a creature without a definite form? If you try to grapple an ooze, how do you distinguish who is the grappler and who is the grapplee? Grappling to me is very similar to critical strikes or sneak attack. Grappling is using pressure points, joints, etc. If the creature has no vitals, I think I would rule that you cannot deal damage to an ooze with a grapple check. You can only try to escape.
lugnut71 02-26-04, 04:05 PM	More thoughts: Most oozes run from large to huge size with a few even bigger. A lot of them you can't even hurt while grappling. So really should it even matter if you can or can't since nobody in their right mind would. (None of my players are in their right mind so I think they would try it.)
Prodigy 02-26-04, 04:45 PM	The Ooze and or Gelatinous Cube etc. Do attack using pseudopods and do have a grapple rating and attack in the monster Manual 3.5. I would assume this means you can grapple with them...In fact most oozes have an improved grab special attack... You really want to get excited....catch a gelatinous cube "flatfooted" when he clearly has no feet... The point..none... You can grapple an ooze like any other creature with a grapple attack of it's own. Prodigy.
Boondoggle 02-26-04, 05:55 PM	Smashing an ooze with a mace makes no sense conceptually, either, but it is a rather effective in game method of dealing with them. I think, for game balance, grappling should work fine. In fact, I would give them a rather large racial bonus to grapple checks due to the fact that they can so easily engulf opponents.