Captive Black Dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Captive Black Dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bel-Marduk
01-12-05, 05:35 AM My 2nd level adventuring party has captured a CR5 Black Dragon (Young or Very Young, I believe), and we are debating what to do with it. Half the group wants to kill it, but I think we should let him liveand possibly redeem him.

Any ideas on how to do this? I have the rules from Book of Exalted Deeds, but I am looking for ways to keep him safe and such.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Deacon Liadon
01-12-05, 06:26 AM With great difficulty.

Seriously though, what do you mean by "keep him safe?" Do you mean keep him safe from retribution by other dragons when he turns good, or "keep him safe" as in: prevent him from doing damage to your party? If the former, have him join the party. Ther're tons of rules aaround the place for dragon NPC's. If the latter invest in several heavy pairs of masterwork manacles, some sort of iron muzzle and armour which grants protection against acid.
Derren S.
01-12-05, 06:42 AM The real question sould be how to keep yourself save from the dragon.

I don't know how you could have captured a CR 5 dragon, but as soon as he wakes up it normally would kill 2-3 characters and then fly off.
JasperDm
01-12-05, 07:07 AM This is a 20-some-odd year old dragon. Have it feign compliance and join them, then betray them and/or escape the first chance it gets. Give them a boat adventure and watch him go over the side, and escape into the depths. Or just let him fly away in their sleep. This little guy is way too proud and independant to be under their thumb without some serious magical binding. And if all else fails, bribe the party, you can always rebuild your hoard by the time they've all died of old age.
Deacon Liadon
01-12-05, 08:00 AM The real question sould be how to keep yourself save from the dragon.

I don't know how you could have captured a CR 5 dragon, but as soon as he wakes up it normally would kill 2-3 characters and then fly off.
That's why the manacles, muzzle and acidproof armour.
Derren S.
01-12-05, 08:03 AM A bit much for 2nd level characters don't you think? And what should they do untill they can get this equipment? dragons don'tt end to live anywhere near cities.
Bel-Marduk
01-12-05, 10:23 AM Well we captured him because we all had potions of protection from acid and my wizard got off maximum strength damage with a Ray of Enfeeblement first round. This negated his breath weapon, atleast for the first few breaths, and brought his strength score to 8. Being only medium size with strength, one of our fighters grappled to keep it from flying away, and then we pummeled it.

If anyone is wondering, we were using the Basic Set adventure. It wasn't really too difficult at all.

What I mean by keep it safe is prevent us from doing damage to us while we redeem it.

By the Book of Exalted Deeds Rules- If you treat a prisoner humanely, and spend atleast one hour a day speaking to it about the error of its ways and such, It has to make a modified will save opposing your diplomacy check each day. Seven failed saves in a row changes it's alignment to neutral and another seven in a row changes it to good.

So, How to keep it from attacking us constantly until then? We already figured on the manacles and iron muzzle, but we figured we would have to remove the muzzle to atleast feeed him and such. So if anyone has some more ideas they would be great.
Ogre4Hire
01-12-05, 11:52 AM Personally, I recommend that you just carve him up and sell him.

I can't actually think of a way for a 2nd level party to be able to actually keep a dragon prisoner (they just don't have the resources available).
Chazmon
01-12-05, 01:34 PM Yer pawning the parts is the best way get a cool suit of acid resistance armour or similar. Try and pull off a suit of full plate with some special properties and let the smith keep the rest.
If you then have acid resistant armour you can go and catch another one and keep it...

Chazmon
Derren S.
01-12-05, 01:46 PM What makes you think dragon parts a worth much? That is wrong.

Also, we are talking about an medium dragon. Not even large enough to make hide armor for human out of it.
Bel-Marduk
01-12-05, 02:58 PM Derren is correct. The best I could do with the dragons hide is make one small masterwork hide armor, which none of us would use.

I think it should be taken to account that the entire group is good. While it can be consider justified to kill a dangerous monster immediatley after battle. We have allready taken it prisoner, and I don't know how to justify slitting its throat with our alignments.
Korone
01-12-05, 03:27 PM By the Book of Exalted Deeds Rules- If you treat a prisoner humanely, and spend atleast one hour a day speaking to it about the error of its ways and such, It has to make a modified will save opposing your diplomacy check each day. Seven failed saves in a row changes it's alignment to neutral and another seven in a row changes it to good.
This is one of the most stupid rule that I ever seen.

Anyway, I would go to sell him, too.
Derren S.
01-12-05, 03:51 PM Depending on how your characters view enslavement/slave trading. The dragon is stilll a sentient beeing.
Scarlet Knight
01-12-05, 05:02 PM A good Knowledge: Arcana check can give your character clues on how to deal with your captured dragon. Young Black Dragons only have a Wisdom of 11, so if you want to take a risk you might try to use the Bluff skill to convince the dragon that you're completely immune to acid for whatever reason you make up. The dragon already tried to use it's acid breath to hurt you and failed, so it's a believable bluff. When you try to feed it just have your character brandish a weapon and say something like, "Your acid breath won't hurt me, so eat this sheep and don't try any funny business, or else your muzzle goes right back on." Black Dragons have Sense Motive as class skill, so don't try it unless you have a good bonus to your Bluff skill! I'd guess that the dragon probably has most skill points invested in ranks of Hide, Move Silently, Swim and Intimidate, though, so I'd be inclined to try it.

PS: Dragons also have Escape Artist as a class skill, so be extra careful the dragon doesn't get out of those chains!
sabrewolf
01-14-05, 11:41 AM By the great scales of Bahamut.. that´s one mess you put yourself into, eh..

Anyway, i can think of a thing or two.. first, try gathering as much information about dragons, mainly other dragons.. i guess this one besides have no reson to go back to it´s lair since most likely you got any hoard and can simply reveal it´s location to others, so it have to find another place to lair and posibly new hunting grounds.. one sugestion is to use what info you can get to convince him of greater threats and stay as an ´ally´ till you can find a safer place far from cities and thus safe from other adventurers..
This one leaves the dragon as is and it may seek the party latter for revenge uppon it´s forced relocation.. of course you can latter try to get it´s friendship some odd way.. hmm.. maybe give back any hoard with a little extra?.. :D

For redemption, while keeping the party safe, one could use another dragon (not black, for my scales sake) to try get him as an ally against a common threat... and on that while, treat him well and speak with it..

On another claw, you can just use not so good-aligned methods like keeping him down with constant weakening trhough enfeblement.. or use a helm of oposable alignment.. or even manage some npc to geas the dragon for some redemption deed(s) then free it.. also a clever thinking one might even think of using a greater-good deed as the means of breaking a specific morph-lock curse, like, keeping the dragon as a human till he breaks the curse.. or keeping it as a dragon as long as it´s not on a swamp and/or during daylight..

All in all, think different.. bessides, who said a black dragon must be all chaotic evil.. personaly, i say to tartari with the "allways have this alignment", afterall they are dragons, one of the mightest beings that exist.. they might as well have any alignment they want.... and this black one might have some sense of honour and feel in dempt and even start rethinking things after your party treat him respectfully and hounorable and let him free somewhere where he is neighter threatened nor threathens other sentients.. and say, if you also help him with the relocation by undoing the mess you caused on it´s lair ?.. who knows.... he may let you live with it just for the shock of not expecting such unusual behaivior from "insignificant" adventurers.

..and now i´ll shut my muzzle.. eh.. and good luck with this one..
Raven Dark
01-14-05, 01:30 PM Use a Helm of Opposite Alignment when you get one.

At only 4,000gp it will be within your financial reach in only a couple of levels.

Just keep putting it on the dragon until he fails the save. Then you will have a Lawful Good Black Dragon (who still may not like you) who likes being lawful good!
Gilean
01-14-05, 01:55 PM Listen to Sabrewolf.

Honestly, I think you should immediately swear fealty to the dragon and give him/her all your treasure to compensate for the trouble you have caused. With good enough diplomacy he/she might only take one of you hostage and let others get him/her more loot.
Scarlet Knight
01-14-05, 02:26 PM Honestly, I think you should immediately swear fealty to the dragon and give him/her all your treasure to compensate for the trouble you have caused. With good enough diplomacy he/she might only take one of you hostage and let others get him/her more loot.
Why would they do that? They defeated the dragon in battle and chained it up!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bel-Marduk 01-12-05, 05:35 AM	My 2nd level adventuring party has captured a CR5 Black Dragon (Young or Very Young, I believe), and we are debating what to do with it. Half the group wants to kill it, but I think we should let him liveand possibly redeem him. Any ideas on how to do this? I have the rules from Book of Exalted Deeds, but I am looking for ways to keep him safe and such. Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Deacon Liadon 01-12-05, 06:26 AM	With great difficulty. Seriously though, what do you mean by "keep him safe?" Do you mean keep him safe from retribution by other dragons when he turns good, or "keep him safe" as in: prevent him from doing damage to your party? If the former, have him join the party. Ther're tons of rules aaround the place for dragon NPC's. If the latter invest in several heavy pairs of masterwork manacles, some sort of iron muzzle and armour which grants protection against acid.
Derren S. 01-12-05, 06:42 AM	The real question sould be how to keep yourself save from the dragon. I don't know how you could have captured a CR 5 dragon, but as soon as he wakes up it normally would kill 2-3 characters and then fly off.
JasperDm 01-12-05, 07:07 AM	This is a 20-some-odd year old dragon. Have it feign compliance and join them, then betray them and/or escape the first chance it gets. Give them a boat adventure and watch him go over the side, and escape into the depths. Or just let him fly away in their sleep. This little guy is way too proud and independant to be under their thumb without some serious magical binding. And if all else fails, bribe the party, you can always rebuild your hoard by the time they've all died of old age.
Deacon Liadon 01-12-05, 08:00 AM	The real question sould be how to keep yourself save from the dragon. I don't know how you could have captured a CR 5 dragon, but as soon as he wakes up it normally would kill 2-3 characters and then fly off. That's why the manacles, muzzle and acidproof armour.
Derren S. 01-12-05, 08:03 AM	A bit much for 2nd level characters don't you think? And what should they do untill they can get this equipment? dragons don'tt end to live anywhere near cities.
Bel-Marduk 01-12-05, 10:23 AM	Well we captured him because we all had potions of protection from acid and my wizard got off maximum strength damage with a Ray of Enfeeblement first round. This negated his breath weapon, atleast for the first few breaths, and brought his strength score to 8. Being only medium size with strength, one of our fighters grappled to keep it from flying away, and then we pummeled it. If anyone is wondering, we were using the Basic Set adventure. It wasn't really too difficult at all. What I mean by keep it safe is prevent us from doing damage to us while we redeem it. By the Book of Exalted Deeds Rules- If you treat a prisoner humanely, and spend atleast one hour a day speaking to it about the error of its ways and such, It has to make a modified will save opposing your diplomacy check each day. Seven failed saves in a row changes it's alignment to neutral and another seven in a row changes it to good. So, How to keep it from attacking us constantly until then? We already figured on the manacles and iron muzzle, but we figured we would have to remove the muzzle to atleast feeed him and such. So if anyone has some more ideas they would be great.
Ogre4Hire 01-12-05, 11:52 AM	Personally, I recommend that you just carve him up and sell him. I can't actually think of a way for a 2nd level party to be able to actually keep a dragon prisoner (they just don't have the resources available).
Chazmon 01-12-05, 01:34 PM	Yer pawning the parts is the best way get a cool suit of acid resistance armour or similar. Try and pull off a suit of full plate with some special properties and let the smith keep the rest. If you then have acid resistant armour you can go and catch another one and keep it... Chazmon
Derren S. 01-12-05, 01:46 PM	What makes you think dragon parts a worth much? That is wrong. Also, we are talking about an medium dragon. Not even large enough to make hide armor for human out of it.
Bel-Marduk 01-12-05, 02:58 PM	Derren is correct. The best I could do with the dragons hide is make one small masterwork hide armor, which none of us would use. I think it should be taken to account that the entire group is good. While it can be consider justified to kill a dangerous monster immediatley after battle. We have allready taken it prisoner, and I don't know how to justify slitting its throat with our alignments.
Korone 01-12-05, 03:27 PM	By the Book of Exalted Deeds Rules- If you treat a prisoner humanely, and spend atleast one hour a day speaking to it about the error of its ways and such, It has to make a modified will save opposing your diplomacy check each day. Seven failed saves in a row changes it's alignment to neutral and another seven in a row changes it to good. This is one of the most stupid rule that I ever seen. Anyway, I would go to sell him, too.
Derren S. 01-12-05, 03:51 PM	Depending on how your characters view enslavement/slave trading. The dragon is stilll a sentient beeing.
Scarlet Knight 01-12-05, 05:02 PM	A good Knowledge: Arcana check can give your character clues on how to deal with your captured dragon. Young Black Dragons only have a Wisdom of 11, so if you want to take a risk you might try to use the Bluff skill to convince the dragon that you're completely immune to acid for whatever reason you make up. The dragon already tried to use it's acid breath to hurt you and failed, so it's a believable bluff. When you try to feed it just have your character brandish a weapon and say something like, "Your acid breath won't hurt me, so eat this sheep and don't try any funny business, or else your muzzle goes right back on." Black Dragons have Sense Motive as class skill, so don't try it unless you have a good bonus to your Bluff skill! I'd guess that the dragon probably has most skill points invested in ranks of Hide, Move Silently, Swim and Intimidate, though, so I'd be inclined to try it. PS: Dragons also have Escape Artist as a class skill, so be extra careful the dragon doesn't get out of those chains!
sabrewolf 01-14-05, 11:41 AM	By the great scales of Bahamut.. that´s one mess you put yourself into, eh.. Anyway, i can think of a thing or two.. first, try gathering as much information about dragons, mainly other dragons.. i guess this one besides have no reson to go back to it´s lair since most likely you got any hoard and can simply reveal it´s location to others, so it have to find another place to lair and posibly new hunting grounds.. one sugestion is to use what info you can get to convince him of greater threats and stay as an ´ally´ till you can find a safer place far from cities and thus safe from other adventurers.. This one leaves the dragon as is and it may seek the party latter for revenge uppon it´s forced relocation.. of course you can latter try to get it´s friendship some odd way.. hmm.. maybe give back any hoard with a little extra?.. :D For redemption, while keeping the party safe, one could use another dragon (not black, for my scales sake) to try get him as an ally against a common threat... and on that while, treat him well and speak with it.. On another claw, you can just use not so good-aligned methods like keeping him down with constant weakening trhough enfeblement.. or use a helm of oposable alignment.. or even manage some npc to geas the dragon for some redemption deed(s) then free it.. also a clever thinking one might even think of using a greater-good deed as the means of breaking a specific morph-lock curse, like, keeping the dragon as a human till he breaks the curse.. or keeping it as a dragon as long as it´s not on a swamp and/or during daylight.. All in all, think different.. bessides, who said a black dragon must be all chaotic evil.. personaly, i say to tartari with the "allways have this alignment", afterall they are dragons, one of the mightest beings that exist.. they might as well have any alignment they want.... and this black one might have some sense of honour and feel in dempt and even start rethinking things after your party treat him respectfully and hounorable and let him free somewhere where he is neighter threatened nor threathens other sentients.. and say, if you also help him with the relocation by undoing the mess you caused on it´s lair ?.. who knows.... he may let you live with it just for the shock of not expecting such unusual behaivior from "insignificant" adventurers. ..and now i´ll shut my muzzle.. eh.. and good luck with this one..
Raven Dark 01-14-05, 01:30 PM	Use a Helm of Opposite Alignment when you get one. At only 4,000gp it will be within your financial reach in only a couple of levels. Just keep putting it on the dragon until he fails the save. Then you will have a Lawful Good Black Dragon (who still may not like you) who likes being lawful good!
Gilean 01-14-05, 01:55 PM	Listen to Sabrewolf. Honestly, I think you should immediately swear fealty to the dragon and give him/her all your treasure to compensate for the trouble you have caused. With good enough diplomacy he/she might only take one of you hostage and let others get him/her more loot.
Scarlet Knight 01-14-05, 02:26 PM	Honestly, I think you should immediately swear fealty to the dragon and give him/her all your treasure to compensate for the trouble you have caused. With good enough diplomacy he/she might only take one of you hostage and let others get him/her more loot. Why would they do that? They defeated the dragon in battle and chained it up!