Card Soldiers - more Lewis Carol strangeness (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Card Soldiers - more Lewis Carol strangeness (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Johnny Cache
01-25-06, 02:56 PM Continuing in the trip through the looking glass that Watchdog_of_Hades started, here's my first attempt at monster creation:
----
Card Soldiers
Medium Constructs
Hit Dice: 2d10 (11 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 11(+0 size, +0 dex, +1 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/na
Attack: Paper Halberd+1 (1d8) or Paper Longsword+1 (1d6)
Full Attack: see above
Space/Reach: 5 ft. by 0 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Construct traits, Stacking, Wall Defense, Edge-on, Flutter, Air resistance, Flammable, Immunities, Damage Reduction, Short Limbs ,Frail (optional)
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +0
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: -
Feats: Lightning Reflexes
Environment: Any not too moist
Organization: Single, Hand(5), Suit(10) or Deck(40 or 42)
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 2-5 HD (Medium); 6-10 HD (Large); 10-16 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

The Card Soldier is essentiely a golem made of pressed paper. Its appearance from the front of back is that of a 3 ft. by 4 ft. vertical rectangle with a humanoid head attached to the top and humanoid forelimbs attached to the sides and bottom. The front of each rectangle is mostly white with a variable number of identical symbols, and the back is usually a brightly-colored design. These construct are rather expensive to create, as an entire deck must be constructed at one time.
The process of creating Card Soldiers also creates their weapons, also made of pressed paper. While they function as normal +1 weapons for the constructs, they are useless in the hands of anyone else and have no value except as souveniers.

Flammable (Ex): Being constructed of pressed paper means that, when a Card Soldier is damaged by a fire-based attack, there is a 50% chance of it catching fire and taking a similar amount of damage each turn until it is destroyed. Electricity-based attacks have a 30% chance of igniting the construct. A Card Soldier cannot extinquish its own flames, unless it can find water to immerse itself into.
Immunities (Ex): A Card Soldier is immune to cold-based and sonic-based attacks. Its waxy coating also gives it immunity to acid-based attacks until it takes damage, and even then it only takes one point of acid damage per round.
Damage Reduction (Ex): A Card Soldier's flexible body gives it DR4/slashing or piercing.
Wall Defense (Ex): If a Card soldier can place itself against a smooth, hard, flat surface, it gains complete immunity to bludgeoning attacks, takes only half damage from slashing weapons, and damage from piercing weapons is reduced to 1 point per attack. Remaining damage is dealt to the surface behind the construct. This ability may be used as part of a move action whenever a single card soldier is within 5' of a suitable vertical surface, or as a free action when a card soldier is prone on a suitable surface.
Short Limbs (Ex): Due to the structure of a Card Soldier's body, it is incapable of initiating a grapple. If an opponent attempts to grapple it, it may still make a grapple check to resist.

In addition, a Card Soldier's exceptionally flat body gives it the following features:
Stacking (Ex): An entire deck of the constructs can fit in one 5' sqaure, one behind the other. Only the front card in a stack may take any action other than movement. Said front card suffers no penalties for the other cards sharing its square.
Edge-on (Ex): As a move action, a Card soldier can position his paper-thin body sideways in relation to an observer or attacker. A card soldier can use this ability to make a special hide check, without need for concealment, as if he rolled a 20 on the check. A card soldier takes a -2 circumstance penalty on this check for each observer beyond the first. In combat, a Card Soldier can use this ability to give himself concealment against a single opponent. A "stack" of Card Soldiers may use this ability as a group; they take a -1 circumstance penalty on the check for each card after the first.
Flutter (Ex): A Card Soldier can effectively Featherfall at will.
Air Resistance (Ex): A Card Soldier's body, due to it's shape and material construction, is especially vulnerable to the effects of high wind. For the purposes of wind effects (including artificially-created winds, like those created by a Gust of Wind spell), treat a Card Soldier as being two size categories smaller than its actual size.
Frail (Ex): The flimsiness of the materials used in making Card Soldiers means that they do not get the normal bonus HP for a construct of their size. Optional rule: This flaw may be omitted for use with high-level or Epic parties; doing so increases the CR of an individual Card Soldier to 3.
Spike_Fightwicky
01-25-06, 03:13 PM I'd be silly not to PEACH! The flavor of this thing is awesome!

Hit Dice: 2d10+2 (13 hp)
Medium constructs have a HP bonus of +20. This guy's HP would be 31.

Initiative: +2
His dex is 10, so he shouldn't have an initiative bonus.

Base Attack/Grapple: +0/na
At 2 HD, constructs have +1 BaB

Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +0
His saves are off. He has no con mod, so it should be +0 Fort.

Feats: Weapon Proficiency (Simple and Martial), Dodge, Toughness, Lightning Reflexes
You don't need to list his weapon proficiencies (constructs are assumed proficient with anything they're described as wielding. Other than that, you don't need toughness (+20 HP boost for being a construct) Also, he doesn't qualify for Dodge. Finally, he only has enough HD for 1 feat.

Organization: Single, Hand(5), Suit(10) or Deck(40 or 42)
Absolutely brilliant!! :D

Flammable: Being constructed of pressed paper means that, when a Card Soldier is damaged by a fire-based attack, there is a 50% chance of it catching fire and taking a similar amount of damage each turn until it is destroyed. Electricity-based attacks have a 30% chance of igniting the construct. A Card Soldier cannot extinquish its own flames, unless it can find water to immerse itself into.
Can the cards stack onto the flaming one to smother the flame?

Now, if he had an ability to lower his HP like: Frail (Ex): A Card Soldier does not gain any bonus hit points from his construct size, then he should be good for a CR 2ish creature, maybe 1.

Other than that, I love the thing!
Johnny Cache
01-25-06, 04:18 PM Many thanks for the PEACHes, Spike! :) Corrections made. And I put the "Frail" feature in as an optional cost-cutter, m'kay?

I don't see them as using their stacking trick to smother the flames, tho. The stackers would be as likely to catch on fire themselves. Also, I see them as being too afraid of the flames to try.

BTW - I forgot to post the links to the threads that got this started. Check out here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=573616) and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=574097) for other cool looking-glass creatures.
Spike_Fightwicky
01-25-06, 04:29 PM Looks good! I think I might play through American McGee's Alice again and stat up all the monsters, NPCs and make some magic items... Curse the nostalgia factor!
Bluehero
01-25-06, 04:48 PM That monster is so cool. Its abilities are hilarious and match perfectly with its paperness. :D
Johnny Cache
01-25-06, 04:55 PM I was considering doing some NPC statting myself, Spike. How does this sound:

I was thinking that Lewis Carrol's world would fit pretty well as a remote corner of faerie. That would make nost of the inhabitants be more-or-less normal fey, with the Mad Hatter being a mid-level noble and the Red Queen being fey royalty. The behavior fits, no? And the Doormouse, the Cheshire Cat, and the Walrus could be Awakened animals with the Feytouched template.

Hi, Bluehero! Glad you like my creatures. Sorry 'bout the crosspost. Darn slow servers!
Spike_Fightwicky
01-25-06, 05:37 PM Which book is the Feytouched template in? Sounds interesting. It could make for a very wacky campaign setting. And don't forget Caterpillar. Can vermin be awakened :D
Radijs
01-25-06, 06:52 PM Bloody brilliant Johnny. Really I must send my players to wonderland.
Johnny Cache
01-25-06, 08:54 PM Spike - IIRC, Feytouched is in Fiend Folio. You could also look here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). Good point about Caterpiller: the PHB says "animal or tree". Is vermin an animal sub-type in game terms? If not, you could always use the Insectile template from Savage Species on a fey.

Radijs - And don't forget that all of faerie is a wild magic zone (at least that's how my DM runs it). That should keep your players on their toes. :devil: Let me know how things turn out, m'kay?
OamuTheMonk
01-26-06, 01:15 AM I leave for a couple days, and everyone brings their "A" game to the board. Very cool monster.

Time for quibbles:

All of the special qualities are missing descriptors (Ex, Sp, Su). All of the Card Soldier's qualities would seem to be (Ex), for extrordinary.

The Flatten-against-a-wall ability should be described in a seperate entry, maybe something like:

Wall backed (Ex): If a Card soldier can place itself against a smooth, flat surface, it gains complete immunity to bludgeoning attacks and takes only half damage from slashing weapons. Damage from piercing weapons is reduced to 1 point. Remaining damage is dealt to the surface behind the construct. This ability occurs automatically whenever a single card soldier occupies a 5' square that contains a suitable vertical surface, or when a card soldier is prone on a suitable surface.

Short Limbs: While the construct's body is flexible, ist cannot bend enough to allow a grapple.

Awkwardly worded, and mechanically underdescribed. I suggest;

Can't Grapple (ex): Due to the structure of a card soldier's body, they are incapable of engaging in a grapple. A card soldier cannot attempt to initiate a grapple, and, if grappled, automatically fails grapple checks.

Air Resistance(Ex): This is the main problem with Card Soldier's shape. It is because of this that the construct only moves 20 ft. per round. In addition, changing facing costs the construct 5 ft. of movement. A Gust of Wind spell renders a Card Soldier effectively helpless.

Mechanically underdescribed, again. You don't need to give reasoning for the landspeed, and in addition, there is no facing in D&D (I know about the Edge on ability, I'm going to address that too). Try:

Air Resistance(Ex): A card soldier's body, due to it's shape and material construction, is especially vulnerable to the effects of high wind. For the purposes of wind effects (including artificially-created winds, like those created by a Gust of wind spell), treat a card soldier as being two size categories smaller than it's actual size.

Okay. Edge on. Tricky, but i think I can come up with a break-proof version of the ability that retains it's heart. Try this:

Edge-on (Ex): As a move action, a Card soldier can position his paper-thin body sideways in relation to an observer or attacker. A card soldier can use this ability to make a special hide check, without need for concealment, as if he rolled a 20 on the check. A card soldier takes a -2 circumstance penalty on this check for each observer beyond the first. In combat, a Card Soldier can use this ability to give himself concealment against a single opponent.

There. Rest assured that I have made these suggestions in order to (in my opinion) make this excellent creature more streamlined and rules friendly.

I also think that, in order to encourage the use of these creatures in the manner that they will be most entertaining (Large groups!), you adopt the Frail special quality as definitive. It makes the most sense.
Johnny Cache
01-26-06, 09:49 PM Thanks for the help, OamuTheMonk. Much appreciated. :)

I've incorporated your suggestions into the monster with two small changes (quibbles with your quibbles? :P):
- I didn't see the CS as unable to defend against grapples. I mean, if you put your arms around it, it should be able to shove them or you away, no?
- I don't see the Wall Defense (as I renamed it) as being automatic; the CS might deliberately lean away from its protective surface to make an attack (or try to get to its feet).

Other than that I thought everything you said was PEACHy keen. :D Thanks again!
Bongitybongbong
01-27-06, 12:52 PM Armor Class: flat-footed 40

Do you mean 4 or is 40 right? I'm not sure, but I want to make sure.
Spike_Fightwicky
01-27-06, 01:48 PM Do you mean 4 or is 40 right? I'm not sure, but I want to make sure.

Good catch! By all counts, the AC entry should read like this:

Armor Class: 11(+0 size, +0 dex, +1 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 40

Changes to:

Armor Class: 11(+0 size, +0 dex, +1 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 11

I can't see any other AC mods, so that's that.
Johnny Cache
01-27-06, 06:02 PM ??? Thanks for the catch, Bongitybongbong. I have no idea where that "40" came from. I have 11 in my original copy, just like Spike says.

Anyhoo, it's fixed now.
Watchdog_of_Hades
01-28-06, 10:19 AM I like it. I especially like the organizations. Very cool.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Johnny Cache 01-25-06, 02:56 PM	Continuing in the trip through the looking glass that Watchdog_of_Hades started, here's my first attempt at monster creation: ---- Card Soldiers Medium Constructs Hit Dice: 2d10 (11 hp) Initiative: +0 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares) Armor Class: 11(+0 size, +0 dex, +1 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 11 Base Attack/Grapple: +1/na Attack: Paper Halberd+1 (1d8) or Paper Longsword+1 (1d6) Full Attack: see above Space/Reach: 5 ft. by 0 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: - Special Qualities: Construct traits, Stacking, Wall Defense, Edge-on, Flutter, Air resistance, Flammable, Immunities, Damage Reduction, Short Limbs ,Frail (optional) Saves: Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +0 Abilities: Str 8, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 Skills: - Feats: Lightning Reflexes Environment: Any not too moist Organization: Single, Hand(5), Suit(10) or Deck(40 or 42) Challenge Rating: 1 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 2-5 HD (Medium); 6-10 HD (Large); 10-16 HD (Huge) Level Adjustment: - The Card Soldier is essentiely a golem made of pressed paper. Its appearance from the front of back is that of a 3 ft. by 4 ft. vertical rectangle with a humanoid head attached to the top and humanoid forelimbs attached to the sides and bottom. The front of each rectangle is mostly white with a variable number of identical symbols, and the back is usually a brightly-colored design. These construct are rather expensive to create, as an entire deck must be constructed at one time. The process of creating Card Soldiers also creates their weapons, also made of pressed paper. While they function as normal +1 weapons for the constructs, they are useless in the hands of anyone else and have no value except as souveniers. Flammable (Ex): Being constructed of pressed paper means that, when a Card Soldier is damaged by a fire-based attack, there is a 50% chance of it catching fire and taking a similar amount of damage each turn until it is destroyed. Electricity-based attacks have a 30% chance of igniting the construct. A Card Soldier cannot extinquish its own flames, unless it can find water to immerse itself into. Immunities (Ex): A Card Soldier is immune to cold-based and sonic-based attacks. Its waxy coating also gives it immunity to acid-based attacks until it takes damage, and even then it only takes one point of acid damage per round. Damage Reduction (Ex): A Card Soldier's flexible body gives it DR4/slashing or piercing. Wall Defense (Ex): If a Card soldier can place itself against a smooth, hard, flat surface, it gains complete immunity to bludgeoning attacks, takes only half damage from slashing weapons, and damage from piercing weapons is reduced to 1 point per attack. Remaining damage is dealt to the surface behind the construct. This ability may be used as part of a move action whenever a single card soldier is within 5' of a suitable vertical surface, or as a free action when a card soldier is prone on a suitable surface. Short Limbs (Ex): Due to the structure of a Card Soldier's body, it is incapable of initiating a grapple. If an opponent attempts to grapple it, it may still make a grapple check to resist. In addition, a Card Soldier's exceptionally flat body gives it the following features: Stacking (Ex): An entire deck of the constructs can fit in one 5' sqaure, one behind the other. Only the front card in a stack may take any action other than movement. Said front card suffers no penalties for the other cards sharing its square. Edge-on (Ex): As a move action, a Card soldier can position his paper-thin body sideways in relation to an observer or attacker. A card soldier can use this ability to make a special hide check, without need for concealment, as if he rolled a 20 on the check. A card soldier takes a -2 circumstance penalty on this check for each observer beyond the first. In combat, a Card Soldier can use this ability to give himself concealment against a single opponent. A "stack" of Card Soldiers may use this ability as a group; they take a -1 circumstance penalty on the check for each card after the first. Flutter (Ex): A Card Soldier can effectively Featherfall at will. Air Resistance (Ex): A Card Soldier's body, due to it's shape and material construction, is especially vulnerable to the effects of high wind. For the purposes of wind effects (including artificially-created winds, like those created by a Gust of Wind spell), treat a Card Soldier as being two size categories smaller than its actual size. Frail (Ex): The flimsiness of the materials used in making Card Soldiers means that they do not get the normal bonus HP for a construct of their size. Optional rule: This flaw may be omitted for use with high-level or Epic parties; doing so increases the CR of an individual Card Soldier to 3.
Spike_Fightwicky 01-25-06, 03:13 PM	I'd be silly not to PEACH! The flavor of this thing is awesome! Hit Dice: 2d10+2 (13 hp) Medium constructs have a HP bonus of +20. This guy's HP would be 31. Initiative: +2 His dex is 10, so he shouldn't have an initiative bonus. Base Attack/Grapple: +0/na At 2 HD, constructs have +1 BaB Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +0 His saves are off. He has no con mod, so it should be +0 Fort. Feats: Weapon Proficiency (Simple and Martial), Dodge, Toughness, Lightning Reflexes You don't need to list his weapon proficiencies (constructs are assumed proficient with anything they're described as wielding. Other than that, you don't need toughness (+20 HP boost for being a construct) Also, he doesn't qualify for Dodge. Finally, he only has enough HD for 1 feat. Organization: Single, Hand(5), Suit(10) or Deck(40 or 42) Absolutely brilliant!! :D Flammable: Being constructed of pressed paper means that, when a Card Soldier is damaged by a fire-based attack, there is a 50% chance of it catching fire and taking a similar amount of damage each turn until it is destroyed. Electricity-based attacks have a 30% chance of igniting the construct. A Card Soldier cannot extinquish its own flames, unless it can find water to immerse itself into. Can the cards stack onto the flaming one to smother the flame? Now, if he had an ability to lower his HP like: Frail (Ex): A Card Soldier does not gain any bonus hit points from his construct size, then he should be good for a CR 2ish creature, maybe 1. Other than that, I love the thing!
Johnny Cache 01-25-06, 04:18 PM	Many thanks for the PEACHes, Spike! :) Corrections made. And I put the "Frail" feature in as an optional cost-cutter, m'kay? I don't see them as using their stacking trick to smother the flames, tho. The stackers would be as likely to catch on fire themselves. Also, I see them as being too afraid of the flames to try. BTW - I forgot to post the links to the threads that got this started. Check out here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=573616) and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=574097) for other cool looking-glass creatures.
Spike_Fightwicky 01-25-06, 04:29 PM	Looks good! I think I might play through American McGee's Alice again and stat up all the monsters, NPCs and make some magic items... Curse the nostalgia factor!
Bluehero 01-25-06, 04:48 PM	That monster is so cool. Its abilities are hilarious and match perfectly with its paperness. :D
Johnny Cache 01-25-06, 04:55 PM	I was considering doing some NPC statting myself, Spike. How does this sound: I was thinking that Lewis Carrol's world would fit pretty well as a remote corner of faerie. That would make nost of the inhabitants be more-or-less normal fey, with the Mad Hatter being a mid-level noble and the Red Queen being fey royalty. The behavior fits, no? And the Doormouse, the Cheshire Cat, and the Walrus could be Awakened animals with the Feytouched template. Hi, Bluehero! Glad you like my creatures. Sorry 'bout the crosspost. Darn slow servers!
Spike_Fightwicky 01-25-06, 05:37 PM	Which book is the Feytouched template in? Sounds interesting. It could make for a very wacky campaign setting. And don't forget Caterpillar. Can vermin be awakened :D
Radijs 01-25-06, 06:52 PM	Bloody brilliant Johnny. Really I must send my players to wonderland.
Johnny Cache 01-25-06, 08:54 PM	Spike - IIRC, Feytouched is in Fiend Folio. You could also look here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). Good point about Caterpiller: the PHB says "animal or tree". Is vermin an animal sub-type in game terms? If not, you could always use the Insectile template from Savage Species on a fey. Radijs - And don't forget that all of faerie is a wild magic zone (at least that's how my DM runs it). That should keep your players on their toes. :devil: Let me know how things turn out, m'kay?
OamuTheMonk 01-26-06, 01:15 AM	I leave for a couple days, and everyone brings their "A" game to the board. Very cool monster. Time for quibbles: All of the special qualities are missing descriptors (Ex, Sp, Su). All of the Card Soldier's qualities would seem to be (Ex), for extrordinary. The Flatten-against-a-wall ability should be described in a seperate entry, maybe something like: Wall backed (Ex): If a Card soldier can place itself against a smooth, flat surface, it gains complete immunity to bludgeoning attacks and takes only half damage from slashing weapons. Damage from piercing weapons is reduced to 1 point. Remaining damage is dealt to the surface behind the construct. This ability occurs automatically whenever a single card soldier occupies a 5' square that contains a suitable vertical surface, or when a card soldier is prone on a suitable surface. Short Limbs: While the construct's body is flexible, ist cannot bend enough to allow a grapple. Awkwardly worded, and mechanically underdescribed. I suggest; Can't Grapple (ex): Due to the structure of a card soldier's body, they are incapable of engaging in a grapple. A card soldier cannot attempt to initiate a grapple, and, if grappled, automatically fails grapple checks. Air Resistance(Ex): This is the main problem with Card Soldier's shape. It is because of this that the construct only moves 20 ft. per round. In addition, changing facing costs the construct 5 ft. of movement. A Gust of Wind spell renders a Card Soldier effectively helpless. Mechanically underdescribed, again. You don't need to give reasoning for the landspeed, and in addition, there is no facing in D&D (I know about the Edge on ability, I'm going to address that too). Try: Air Resistance(Ex): A card soldier's body, due to it's shape and material construction, is especially vulnerable to the effects of high wind. For the purposes of wind effects (including artificially-created winds, like those created by a Gust of wind spell), treat a card soldier as being two size categories smaller than it's actual size. Okay. Edge on. Tricky, but i think I can come up with a break-proof version of the ability that retains it's heart. Try this: Edge-on (Ex): As a move action, a Card soldier can position his paper-thin body sideways in relation to an observer or attacker. A card soldier can use this ability to make a special hide check, without need for concealment, as if he rolled a 20 on the check. A card soldier takes a -2 circumstance penalty on this check for each observer beyond the first. In combat, a Card Soldier can use this ability to give himself concealment against a single opponent. There. Rest assured that I have made these suggestions in order to (in my opinion) make this excellent creature more streamlined and rules friendly. I also think that, in order to encourage the use of these creatures in the manner that they will be most entertaining (Large groups!), you adopt the Frail special quality as definitive. It makes the most sense.
Johnny Cache 01-26-06, 09:49 PM	Thanks for the help, OamuTheMonk. Much appreciated. :) I've incorporated your suggestions into the monster with two small changes (quibbles with your quibbles? :P): - I didn't see the CS as unable to defend against grapples. I mean, if you put your arms around it, it should be able to shove them or you away, no? - I don't see the Wall Defense (as I renamed it) as being automatic; the CS might deliberately lean away from its protective surface to make an attack (or try to get to its feet). Other than that I thought everything you said was PEACHy keen. :D Thanks again!
Bongitybongbong 01-27-06, 12:52 PM	Armor Class: flat-footed 40 Do you mean 4 or is 40 right? I'm not sure, but I want to make sure.
Spike_Fightwicky 01-27-06, 01:48 PM	Do you mean 4 or is 40 right? I'm not sure, but I want to make sure. Good catch! By all counts, the AC entry should read like this: Armor Class: 11(+0 size, +0 dex, +1 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 40 Changes to: Armor Class: 11(+0 size, +0 dex, +1 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 11 I can't see any other AC mods, so that's that.
Johnny Cache 01-27-06, 06:02 PM	??? Thanks for the catch, Bongitybongbong. I have no idea where that "40" came from. I have 11 in my original copy, just like Spike says. Anyhoo, it's fixed now.
Watchdog_of_Hades 01-28-06, 10:19 AM	I like it. I especially like the organizations. Very cool.