Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OamuTheMonk 12-19-05, 01:34 AM	Ho Hoq Huge Magical Beast (Air) HD:14d10+84 (161hp) Init: +6 Speed:30' Fly 80' (poor) Space/Reach: 15'/10' AC:20 (+7 Natural, +2 Dex, +5 Deflection, -4 Size) touch 13, flat-footed 18 BAB/Grapple: +14/+31 Attack: Bite +23 (2d6+9) Full Attack: 3 Bites +23 (2d6+6) Special Attacks: Lightning Fury, Gobble Down, Breath weapon, Rake (1d8+4), Rend, Death Throes, Stunning Display Special Qualities: Lightning Aura, Darkvision 60', Low-light vision, Electrical immunity, Sonic immunity, Fire resistance 10, Cold resistance 10, Fast healing 10 Saves: Fort+15,Ref+11,Will+8 Abilities:Str28,Dex14,Con22,Int10,Wis18C ha20 Skills: Spot +21, Search +7, Knowledge (nature):+7 Feats: Improved Initiative, Flyby Attack, Hover, Wingover, Ability Focus: Stunning Display Environment: Temperate Mountains and Plains Organization: Solitary, Typhoon (1 Ho Hoq plus 1d6+1 Large Air Elementals) CR:14 Alignment: Usually Chaotic Neutral Treasure: double standard Advancement: 15-20HD(Huge), 21-35(Gargantuan) ...no one was left who had displeased the thing. It had swept down from it's aerie like the shadow of a storm cloud, and the villiage was no more. An Ho hoq is an enormous magical bird infused with the power of storm. It has a stocky, muscular body, with three heads, mounted on long, supple necks. Each head has a prominent crest of feathers, and a warty mask of tough hide around the eyes and nostrils. Each beak is long and sharply tapered. A Ho hoq is covered with glossy blue and white feathers, some of which are stiff and spinelike. It dwells in high, remote places, and hunts in low-lying plains. A Ho hoq will frequently become a guardian of a town or villiage, accepting treasure and food in payment for it's protection. Some Ho hoqs become beloved town patrons in this manner, shielding towns from outside threats, whereas some function more in the manner of extortionists. A Ho hoq is otherwise most known for it's gluttonous appetite, making a meal of almost anything edible: Livestock, crops, trees, wooden structures, people--a Ho hoq is truly omnivorous. They are quite fond of seafood and spirits, and are easily bribed with a large enough supply of either. A Ho hoq is hermaphroditic, and requires no mate to reproduce. A Ho hoq seldom lays more than a single egg at a time, with decades between layings. A newly hatched Ho hoq can fend for itself after a month, at which time the parent drives off the young. Ho hoqs speak common, sylvan, and auran. Combat A Ho hoq is equally comfortable fighting in the air or on the ground. Against Medium or smaller foes, a Ho Hoq simply attempts to Gobble Down as many targets as possible. Against larger targets, the Ho hoq tries to Rend them into smaller pieces, waiting until combat is over to feed. A Ho hoq uses its breath weapon usually as a last resort. If its breath weapon does not end the conflict definitively, a Ho hoq is likely to flee. Rend (Ex): If a Ho Hoq hits the same opponent with two bite attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 2d8+12 points of damage. If a Ho Hoq hits the same opponent with all three bite attacks, it automatically deals an additional 3d8+15 points of damage. Rake (Ex): If a Ho hoq attacks an opponent from the air, it can Rake with it's claws. Attack bonus +17 melee, damage 1d8+4. Gobble Down (Ex): A Ho hoq is adept at gobbling down its prey at blinding speed. If a Ho hoq hits an opponent of medium or smaller size with a bite attack, it can choose to forgo dealing bite damage, instead making a single grapple check. If it succeeds on this check, the opponent is swallowed instantly. Beginning the next round, swallowed targets begin taking 2d8+9 bludgeoning damage from the rocks in the Ho hoq's gizzard. Swallowed targets can cut their way free by using a light piercing or slashing weapon to deal 20 points of damage to the birds gizzard (AC 13, Fast healing 10 applies). Once a swallowed creature exits, muscular action closes the hole. Another swallowed creature must cut it's own way free. A creature that escapes the Ho hoqs gullet with a sucessful grapple check is coughed up into a square adjacent to the Ho hoq(character's choice), landing prone. A DC 23 Reflex save allows a coughed up character to land on their feet (Constitution-based save). The Ho hoq's gizzard can hold 8 medium, 32 small, 128 tiny, or 512 diminuative or smaller targets. Lightning Aura (Su): A Ho hoq is surrounded at all times by a invisible field of electrical energy, which enables it to add its Charisma modifier to its AC, in the form of a deflection bonus(+5). Lightning Fury (Su): Whenever a Ho hoq is agitated (such as during combat), it's body begins discharging destructive arcs of electricity into it's surroundings. Each round, all creatures within 30' of the Ho hoq have a one in three chance of being struck by one of these arcs. Invisibilty, displacement, and simliar effects do not guard against these arcs. For the purposes of cover, this is considered a burst effect, granting applicable bonuses on Reflex saves. Each arc does 2d6 electrical damage, Reflex DC 23 negates. A result of natural 1 on this save means that the character was struck twice, taking full damage from each arc. This save DC is Constitution-based. Breath weapon (Su): Once per hour, a Ho hoq can use the stored electrical energy in its body to fire from its mouths a single 60' cone of electrical energy, Damage 20d6, Reflex DC 23 half. This save DC is Constitution-based. Once it uses it's breath weapon, it loses the benefits of it's Lightning Aura and Lightning Fury for one hour. Stunning Display (Su): As a standard action, a Ho hoq can perform a terrifying physical display, lifting it's crests, flapping its wings, and raising the spine-like electrical-conducting organelles all over its body. As it visibly crackles with blue and gold arcs of electricity, it gives off a horrible, piercing shriek from its three heads. Creatures within 100' who fail a DC 22 Will save are stunned for 1d4 rounds. Creature who successfully save against this effect are immune to that particular Ho hoq's Stunning Display for 24 hours.The Save DC is Charisma based. This is a sonic, mind affecting, fear effect. Death throes (Su): When a Ho hoq is slain, the electricity-producing organelles in it's body release all of the potential electricity from it's body into the atmosphere, producing a severe, non-magical thunderstorm 1d10 minutes after it's death (DMG page 94). This storm is accompanied by heavy rain, large hail, lasts for 1 hour per three Hit die of the Ho hoq, with a cumulative 5% chance per hour of developing a tornado. Emperor Ho Hoqs If a Ho hoq lives long enough to become gargantuan, he undergoes a transformation, retreating into a high perch, and subjecting the nearby countryside to a weeklong deluge. When the Ho hoq emerges in his transformed, gargantuan state, it is considered an Emperor Ho hoq. It has changed in the following ways: Its abilities have increased as follows: Str +12, Dex +2, Con +6, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2. It now has five heads, and an equal number of bite attacks. It's Lightning Fury becomes more powerful, and the damage done by an arc increases to 3d6. Its breath weapon can be used once every ten minutes, and its Damage increases to 25D6. It no longer loses its Lightning Aura while its breath weapon recharges. An Emperor Ho hoq has Spell Resistance 30. In addition, The Emperor Ho hoq can now cast spells as a tenth level druid. The spells are taken from the Druid and Air Domain spell lists. An Emperor Ho Hoq also has acess to the Air Domain's granted power. An Emperor Ho hoq cannot cast any spells with the fire or earth descriptor. An Emperor Ho hoq is CR 18. So, there it is. One of my rare attempts at making a higher-CR Monster. All criticism is welcome, especially opinions regarding the random nature of the Lightning Aura (Edit: Now known as Lightning Fury).
Rake 12-19-05, 07:43 AM	I like it! At first I wondered - "Why would a creature with an ability called Gobble Down also have the Rend ability? Why rip your meal to shreds if you prefer to swallow it live, or whole?" Then I read that it tore it apart between two beaks, and the image of two heads fighting over some poor bastard came to mind, and lo, I was pleased. I really like the Death Throes, too. I was, of course, expecting it to blow-up (like the frost worm). What you've got there is infinitely cooler. One thing - why not just call Gobble Down "Swallow Whole" instead? Because Swallow Whole tends to deal bite damage + swallowing? I'd have called it Swallow Whole and allowed for the bite damage for the sake of simplicity, but that's me. Awesome concept, awesome critter. Also, I'm happy to see so many PEACHes up on the board! There's almost half a dozen. Nice.
OamuTheMonk 12-19-05, 10:09 AM	Gobble Down is just like Swallow whole, only faster. With Swallow whole, it requires two grapple checks conducted over two successive rounds to swallow a creature. With Gobble Down, the trade off is that the creature doesn't have improved grab (just a lesser ability that works in a simlar fashion) and doesn't automatically do bite damage if he's trying to swallow a creature--but he can do it in one round, with one free grapple check.
Rake 12-19-05, 03:33 PM	You're really in favor of shorter grappling sequences, aren't you. This is the second monster I've seen you create that performed 'short-cut grappling'. :D
savant_warlord13 12-19-05, 03:51 PM	it should take a penalty on the grapple check for gobble down to prevent unpalancing. I also think you should change the name of said ability, it's kind of lame. good creature though! :thumbsdow
OamuTheMonk 12-19-05, 05:50 PM	it should take a penalty on the grapple check for gobble down to prevent unpalancing. I may do that. Say, -4 on the grapple check, due to it's frantic nature? Gobble down is kind of a goofy name...I patterned both the name and the ability after the Canada geese that populate the lake where I live, so it has kind of a goofy precedent. You're really in favor of shorter grappling sequences, aren't you. This is the second monster I've seen you create that performed 'short-cut grappling'. Yeah...I think the grappling rules are pretty flawed, as a general rule (ask me sometime about my thoughts on a Fighter in full plate having no problems grappling a monk). Maybe it's just my experiences (as both a player and a DM), but any time anyone or anything grapples anyone or anything else, the game comes to a complete stop, while a flurry of opposed checks are exchanged. Monsters who rely on grappling for their primary attack (like the Chuul, or the Purple Worm) are frequently over-CRed, due to the fact that their primary attack consumes so blessed many actions. While it's trying to swallow one guy, the rest of the party can usually attack with impunity, ending the fight prematurely (and unspectacularly). What's stupid is that being swallowed whole usually isn't that bad--I DMed a game recently wher a character protected by Death ward was swallowed by an Ulgerstata--taking no damage whatsoever from the Necromantic acid in it's gut. He was safer in the thing than out! On a side note, the Order of The Stick confronted this very issue (Grappling monsters) in last month's Dragon magazine. Hilarious. There are a few monsters I can think of (from official sources) who use some kind of 'shortcut grappling' in one way or another: the Fleshraker Dinosaur and the Mivilorn, both from MMIII, are a couple.
savant_warlord13 12-19-05, 05:58 PM	I would say more like -6 or -8
OamuTheMonk 12-19-05, 06:22 PM	-4 is fair. It forgoes bite damage and takes a -4 penalty to swallow a character with one fewer grapple check. There are far more powerful abilities out there than that. He's not going to be grappling as a medium creature.
savant_warlord13 12-19-05, 06:26 PM	wait a minute, expert grappler gives you a -10 instead of a -20 penalty to grapple without being considered grappled. This bird's ability involves grappling without being considered grappled and then some. so I think a -12 might be in order
OamuTheMonk 12-19-05, 06:36 PM	A Mivilorn can swallow two medium opponents at the end of a charging bite without even making a grapple check. Targets only get a reflex save to avoid it. The Plague brush's Scoop ability does what you are describing (grapple a creature, single grapple check, not considered grappled) to as many people as it can roll over. The ability is fine as is. After looking at these other examples, I may ditch the penalty altogether. A Mivilorn is only CR 11. Edit: Ditched. You talked me out of it, savant.
rironin 12-20-05, 12:39 PM	What's stupid is that being swallowed whole usually isn't that bad--I DMed a game recently wher a character protected by Death ward was swallowed by an Ulgerstata--taking no damage whatsoever from the Necromantic acid in it's gut. He was safer in the thing than out! I kind of think the same thing about this creature you've created - assuming that the lightning aura doesn't affect creatures inside it (does it? In many ways, one would expect it to) and the stunning display must be experienced from outside the creature in order to have its effect, it sounds far safer to hack away at it from inside its belly than to be rent to bits and hit by arcs of electricity each round on the outside. Perhaps the gullet should be more dangerous somehow, to give swallowed fighters and incentive to leave? I don't have enough experience to say (with any authority) whether I think the monster is properly CRed or not - although the fact that its stunning display is usable at will (rather than a limited number of times per day) and that the lightning aura is more or less constant (until it uses its breath weapon as a last resort) jump out at me as something that might be unbalancing. I don't know how much it would actually affect combat, but, I know I don't often see creatures in the MM or other books that have unlimited use of their more powerful abilities. I get the impression that such powers are usually limited in some way. Overall though I like the monster a lot - as someone else said, the death throes idea is excellent - you can see it in the mind's eye very vividly, and it should be a very cool end to the beast (especially if the tornadoes/other effects of the storm then have to be avoided or dealt with). I like the way the powers and abilities mesh with the overall concept.
OamuTheMonk 12-20-05, 06:42 PM	...is that you aren't very useful to the rest of your party if you're carving away at the creature's gullet with your back-up dagger, rather than full attacking with your greatsword (from the outside). It's worse if you are a spellcaster who gets swallowed. Perhaps the gullet should be more dangerous somehow, to give swallowed fighters and incentive to leave? Maybe. Most creatures also deal flat acid damage to swallowed opponents. I'll consider it--I may just up the bludgeoning damage, i dunno. ...although the fact that its stunning display is usable at will (rather than a limited number of times per day) and that the lightning aura is more or less constant... Good catch. I need to put in the standard "once you save against this effect, you are immune for 24 hours," with regard to the stunning display. The lightning aura is probably not as big a deal as it could be...a twelfth level party has access to all manner of energy-resisting spells (what spell level is energy immunity?).
NecroMan 12-21-05, 09:39 AM	I'm still not keen on how to determine the randomness of the arcs of electricity. Should it be DM's discretion? If so, that eliminates the "randomness" of the attack. Should it be decided by rolling dice? That seems like a sure-fire way to slow down combat, given that it occurs every round. Also, the sheer volume of electrical arcs seems high: Imagine if you're fighting an Emperor Ho Hoq which can potentially discharge 12 arcs every round. Talk about adding many agonizing minutes to game play with Reflex and damage rolls. Players will simply get bored with the attack and grouse about it. I would reduce the Ho Hoq's lightning to 1d4 and drop the Emp's to 2d4. I would also suggest that the arcs fire off every 1d3 rounds. Anyway, back to finding a solution for the randomness. Rolling dice is a tricky business. The area of effect is 40'. So, what happens if the creature lands amid a hoarde of goblins and is surrounded by 49 of them. Time to crack out the d49? And what are the rules on determining to what goblin a number should be assigned? As combat rages, all of these numbers will be changing -- constantly -- and adding aggravation to the melee. I think this Special Attack is too messy. For everyone's sake, remove the randomness and allow the DM to select which targets are affected. This Special Attack isn't important enough to warrant so much potential grief.
OamuTheMonk 12-21-05, 10:55 AM	...but you may be right. I'll see if I can come up with an iron-clad radomness determiner, or alter the ability--maybe closest targets get struck first? Every 1d3 rounds might be part of the solution...
OamuTheMonk 12-21-05, 01:43 PM	Lightning Aura (Su) Necroman version 1.0: A Ho hoq is surrounded at all times by a invisible field of electrical energy, which enables it to add its Charisma modifier to its AC, in the form of a deflection bonus(+5). In addition, whenever a Ho hoq is agitated (such as during combat), the field begins discharging destructive arcs of electricity at nearby targets. Every 1d3 rounds, 2d4 arcs strike creatures within 40' (targets closest to the Ho hoq are affected first, and the Ho hoq's allies are not immune to this effect). Any target can only be struck by a single arc in one round. Invisibilty, displacement, and simliar effects do not guard against these arcs. Each arc does 3d6 electrical damage, Reflex DC 23 negates. This save is Constitution-based. Hmmm. I think it's a little too weak now. Maybe: Lightning Aura (Su)Oamu version 2.0: A Ho hoq is surrounded at all times by a invisible field of electrical energy, which enables it to add its Charisma modifier to its AC, in the form of a deflection bonus(+5). In addition, whenever a Ho hoq is agitated (such as during combat), the field begins discharging destructive arcs of electricity at nearby targets. Each round, all creatures within 20' of the Ho hoq are struck with arcs of electricity, dealing 2d6 electrical damage. Allies of the Ho hoq are not immune to this effect. Invisibilty, displacement, and simliar effects do not guard against this effect. Reflex DC 23 negates. Creatures who roll a one on this Save take double damage. This save is Constitution-based. Simpler, smaller area of effect, fewer targets (generally). More saves, but the "horde of goblins" problem would be solved pretty quickly. Still affects friend and foe alike (which is my primary problem with putting "DMs discretion" in there). Opinions?
rironin 12-21-05, 01:57 PM	...is that you aren't very useful to the rest of your party if you're carving away at the creature's gullet with your back-up dagger, rather than full attacking with your greatsword (from the outside). It's worse if you are a spellcaster who gets swallowed. Perhaps the gullet should be more dangerous somehow, to give swallowed fighters and incentive to leave? Maybe. Most creatures also deal flat acid damage to swallowed opponents. I'll consider it--I may just up the bludgeoning damage, i dunno. ...although the fact that its stunning display is usable at will (rather than a limited number of times per day) and that the lightning aura is more or less constant... Good catch. I need to put in the standard "once you save against this effect, you are immune for 24 hours," with regard to the stunning display. The lightning aura is probably not as big a deal as it could be...a twelfth level party has access to all manner of energy-resisting spells (what spell level is energy immunity?).Obviously getting swallowed isn't so hot for certain characters, but good point about the back-up dagger - I hadn't been thinking about that restriction. Characters probably won't want to hang out there. Can rogues sneak attack from within the gullet (of this or any other creature)? You'd think the creature would be denied its Dex bonus... it might be the best place for a dagger-wielding rogue. On the lightning aura, you're probably right about the party being able to deal with it (especially since the Reflex Save negates - I had missed that in my first reading), although in some ways it depends on how the bird fights - it's an intelligent creature, and with fast healing and the inexhaustible lightning aura, I would think that a pattern of flyby attacking, dealing lightning damage (and a claw or whatever), then flying away to heal whatever damage it took in the volley, and repeating might keep the battle running long enough for energy protection to run out. However, with the realization of the Ref saves negating, it probably wouldn't be as much of a problem. NecroMan makes a good point with the game slowdown though...
OamuTheMonk 12-21-05, 02:19 PM	I think that the main issue with Rogue sneak attack would be the whole "must be able to strike a vital point" restriction. A birds gullet is pretty tough, and the rocks bouncing around in there are no picnic--A creative DM might allow a Rogue with enough ranks in Knowledge: (Nature) to be able to decipher a creatures anatomy from within (and thus know where to strike). Swallowed characters are considered Grappled. Can a Rogue sneak attack while grappling? ...hmmmm. The AC of the gullet is wrong. it should be 13, not 15 (10+1/2 natural armor bonus). I'll have to fix that.
OamuTheMonk 12-22-05, 04:14 PM	Still hoping for some feedback on the Lightning Aura options.
savant_warlord13 12-22-05, 04:55 PM	Death throes (Su): When a Ho hoq is slain, the electricity-producing organelles in it's body release all of the potential electricity from it's body into the atmosphere, producing a severe, non-magical thunderstorm 1d10 minutes after it's death (DMG page 94). This storm is accompanied by heavy rain, large hail, lasts for 1 hour per three Hit die of the Ho hoq, with a cumulative 5% chance per hour of developing a tornado. I don't think you mean organelles. Organelles are cellular structures, like nuclei and mitochondria also, instead of having emporers not lose their lightning aura at all if they use their breath weapon, how about having a reduced effect?
OamuTheMonk 12-22-05, 05:22 PM	or*gan*elle-noun-a specialized cell part that resembles an organ in having a special function. I could not have chosen a word more appropriate. I was kind of unclear with regards to the Emperor's Lightning Aura--I just meant that he retained his Deflection bonus, not the offensive arcs. Edit: fixed.
savant_warlord13 12-22-05, 05:42 PM	okay, just making sure you know what you are saying
OamuTheMonk 12-22-05, 05:49 PM	...for me not knowing what I'm saying. Anagram/Acronym is only the tip of the iceberg. C'mon, people! Help me iron out this Lightning Aura problem: Lightning Aura (Su) Necroman version 1.0: A Ho hoq is surrounded at all times by a invisible field of electrical energy, which enables it to add its Charisma modifier to its AC, in the form of a deflection bonus(+5). In addition, whenever a Ho hoq is agitated (such as during combat), the field begins discharging destructive arcs of electricity at nearby targets. Every 1d3 rounds, 2d4 arcs strike creatures within 40' (targets closest to the Ho hoq are affected first, and the Ho hoq's allies are not immune to this effect). Any target can only be struck by a single arc in one round. Invisibilty, displacement, and simliar effects do not guard against these arcs. Each arc does 3d6 electrical damage, Reflex DC 23 negates. This save is Constitution-based. Or... Lightning Aura (Su)Oamu version 2.0: A Ho hoq is surrounded at all times by a invisible field of electrical energy, which enables it to add its Charisma modifier to its AC, in the form of a deflection bonus(+5). In addition, whenever a Ho hoq is agitated (such as during combat), the field begins discharging destructive arcs of electricity at nearby targets. Each round, all creatures within 20' of the Ho hoq are struck with arcs of electricity, dealing 2d6 electrical damage. Allies of the Ho hoq are not immune to this effect. Invisibilty, displacement, and simliar effects do not guard against this effect. Reflex DC 23 negates. Creatures who roll a one on this Save take double damage. This save is Constitution-based. Or...some other option? Suggestions?
savant_warlord13 12-22-05, 05:51 PM	Oamu version
OamuTheMonk 12-23-05, 11:27 PM	I have split the deflection-bonus and Electrical-arcing properties into two different abilities, called Lightning Aura, and Lightning Fury. This was done for clarity's sake. In addition, I have tweaked the Lightning Fury ability(as it is now known) into something both random, and easy to execute. Unless somebody voices some pretty clear objections, I'm calling it done.