Categorize this monster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Categorize this monster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Baptor
06-05-07, 12:01 AM Hello,

I am creating a monster that is loosley based on the the Myrdraal from Wheel of Time (aka Fade, Half-Man, etc.).

This creature is created by taking the infant of a humanoid creature and using a special version of Bestow Curse, which turns the infant into this aforementioned monster in a matter of days.
The creature is humanoid in shape, but has no face at all and speaks telepathically. They are wholly evil and live only to slaughter and terrorize at the behest of the evil wizards that create them.
They have a fear gaze and can spread disease, and are very difficult to kill (regeneration).

So, I mean is it a humanoid? Its created with evil magic, not born per-say. It cannot reproduce. Doesn't seem to fit the standard "humanoid" stuff, except that it is a bipedal creature with two arms and a head.
sensestaker
06-05-07, 12:05 AM From what you describe, I'd say Monsterous Humanoid. Being unfamiliar with the original, though, it's difficult to judge for certain.
Rerecros
06-05-07, 12:20 AM What level of regeneration did it have? How could they be killed? Did they eat? Breath? sleep?

I'm leaning aberration as of now, but they might be undead.
sensestaker
06-05-07, 12:35 AM I'm leaning aberration as of now, but they might be undead.

Aberration usually have abberant physiology ex. Aboleths. Wierd things with wierd powers that still look roughly humanoid are usually Monstrous Humanoids ex. Medusas.

This creature is created by taking the infant of a humanoid creature and using a special version of Bestow Curse, which turns the infant into this aforementioned monster in a matter of days.
The creature is humanoid in shape, but has no face at all and speaks telepathically. They are wholly evil and live only to slaughter and terrorize at the behest of the evil wizards that create them.
They have a fear gaze and can spread disease, and are very difficult to kill (regeneration).

Doesn't seem to fit the standard "humanoid" stuff, except that it is a bipedal creature with two arms and a head.

Thus, this is a Monstrous Humanoid.
Rerecros
06-05-07, 12:55 AM :rofl: aberrations can't be humanoid?
:rolleyes: ever hear of Skum? Elans? Ethergaunts? freak'n mindflayers?
sensestaker
06-05-07, 01:10 AM :rofl: aberrations can't be humanoid?
:rolleyes: ever hear of Skum? Elans? Ethergaunts? freak'n mindflayers?

:rolleyes: First off, I said USUALLY, not ALWAYS. Secondly, the only thing anatomically off about this is no face-NOT a face full of tentacles or appearence so hideous that it causes stupification amongst mortals, and it doesn't posess any off-the-wall powers like mindblast. And as for the final qualification for Abberationhood, living to kill doesn't qualify as an "alien mindset" in my book. Ever hear of Gnolls?
Tevish Szat
06-05-07, 01:26 AM aberration, probably. in the vein of Mind Flayers (also made from humans, albeit adult humans)
Rerecros
06-05-07, 01:31 AM Talk about an alien mindset :rolleyes:
Facelessness vs tentacle face, what exactly are your criteria for weirdness here?

Skum and Elan were once human, they are now transformed into creatures outside of the natural order, like your race here, so they are probably abberations, or undead. :)
sensestaker
06-05-07, 01:48 AM Talk about an alien mindset :rolleyes:
Facelessness vs tentacle face, what exactly are your criteria for weirdness here?

Skum and Elan were once human, they are now transformed into creatures outside of the natural order, like your race here, so they are probably abberations, or undead. :)

Elans I am unfamiliar with, and so I cannot speak in relation to them, but Skum were turned into Abberations BY Abberations. Mindflayers also have a lot more going for them than just looking wierd. These just have Regen (like trolls-not abberations) disease (like dire rats-not abberations) and fear (like krenshars-not abberations) And which would you be more freaked out about meeting in a datk alley-something with no face that might make you afraid and sick, or something with an octopus for a face that will suck your brain out of your skull? O vs. http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/edoom/Gost.gif I know who I'd run from faster.
Baptor
06-05-07, 02:39 AM I appreciate all the comments thus far. Keep it up!

I will say to the last poster, is how terrifying something appears governing whether it is an Aberration or not? Because that is relative.

As far as more details;

Do they sleep? No, they do not sleep. If they do rest, it is probably standing up, and you could not tell yourself because they have no eyes or anything to give this away.

BTW they see via Blindsight.

Eat? Hmm, I had not thought about that. I suppose they could eat, but I don't know how'd they eat.

They are not undead, they have a working physiology of organs, blood, etc.

I'd say they do breathe...somehow.

Here are the complete powers;
Fear Gaze
Disease-attack
Telepathy
Detect Magic (line of sight)
Regeneration (not sure of how to stop regen yet, perhaps good-aligned weaponry)
Shadow Travel (can teleport into and out of shadowy areas, see the Shade ability as an example)

The creatures carry and use weapons and armor. They are already calculated into the CR.
There are no male/female versions, they have no gender and cannot reproduce. They can only exist if created.
They live to kill and serve their dark masters. They have a will of their own, but not beyond service to some dark power, such as an evil spellcaster or a demon. Even some diabolical bards have been known to create and use them (even though Bards cannot cast Bestow Curse, they have spells and methods that can be substituted).

Right now I am leaning in favor of those who say Abberation. They don't have six arms or float or anything like that, but neither do Illithid. I see these creatures as only slightly less-weird than Illithid, and far too strange to be humanoids. I am still open for debate, however, so please keep leaving comments!

Another thought, could they be constructs since they are created? It sounds a little crazy to me but there are some crazy constructs out there such as Retrievers.
Light_Colonel
06-05-07, 06:18 AM I would say look up the "Scion of Evil" template from either Heros of Horror or Libris Mortis (can't remember which); since that template does essentially the same sort of thing you are talking about, I would say whatever the template makes you, your mystery monster is.
Radijs
06-05-07, 07:47 AM I'm strongly leaning towards abberation. Such a whole mess of special qualities doesn't fit in monstrous humanoid to me.
Light_Colonel
06-05-07, 01:10 PM A good backup choice for type might be Outsider(native) as well. I am not really sure of the specifics of the creatures you are talking about, however if they come from *somewhere else* and they turn normal people into their kind, I could see them being Outsiders.
Baptor
06-05-07, 02:28 PM A good backup choice for type might be Outsider(native) as well. I am not really sure of the specifics of the creatures you are talking about, however if they come from *somewhere else* and they turn normal people into their kind, I could see them being Outsiders.

They don't come from "somewhere else". They are created via evil magic out of normal humanoids from the Prime.

To put it into very basic terms;

An evil wizard casts a spell on a baby, the baby transforms into this evil creature.
Babzidu
06-05-07, 02:47 PM Abberation, definitely. However, Light_Colonel puts up a good point. Unholy Scion might be similar to what you're looking for. It involves infusing a large amount of pure evil into a human newborn or fetus. The former child then transforms into a creature somewhat similar to half-fiend but it looks different, has fast healing and a whole slew of other abilities.
Baptor
06-05-07, 03:07 PM Abberation, definitely. However, Light_Colonel puts up a good point. Unholy Scion might be similar to what you're looking for. It involves infusing a large amount of pure evil into a human newborn or fetus. The former child then transforms into a creature somewhat similar to half-fiend but it looks different, has fast healing and a whole slew of other abilities.

I went to my local bookstore and took a peek at that template. Its def not what I am looking for. The Unholy Scion when it is born/matures still looks absolutley normal (although it may make people uneasy). My faceless nightmare is certainly nothing like the innocent baby it was spawned from.
Babzidu
06-05-07, 03:14 PM Eh, I tried. You could of course, change the unholy scion's appearance, seeing as it's your campeign.
sensestaker
06-05-07, 03:21 PM I'm really not sure where all this support for abberation is coming from. If you look at other creatures of similiar features and power, most are Monstrous Humanoid-harpies, medusas, hags-all look strange and have some sort of supernatural abilities. This thing definately isn't more abberant that a thri-kreen from MMII which is insectile, has 4 arms and innate psionics, yet is still just a Monstrous Humanoid. The only thing anyone's been able to say to argue otherwise is "Mindflayer" which, in my opinion, was cast into the abberation group due to the predominant "anything-with-tentacles=Cthulu" mindset. Compare its physiology and powers REALISTICALLY to what else is out there and, unless something else major that hasn't been talked about in its nature or appearance comes up, there's no way it should be catogorized as an abberation.
Baptor
06-05-07, 05:24 PM I'm really not sure where all this support for abberation is coming from. If you look at other creatures of similiar features and power, most are Monstrous Humanoid-harpies, medusas, hags-all look strange and have some sort of supernatural abilities. This thing definately isn't more abberant that a thri-kreen from MMII which is insectile, has 4 arms and innate psionics, yet is still just a Monstrous Humanoid. The only thing anyone's been able to say to argue otherwise is "Mindflayer" which, in my opinion, was cast into the abberation group due to the predominant "anything-with-tentacles=Cthulu" mindset. Compare its physiology and powers REALISTICALLY to what else is out there and, unless something else major that hasn't been talked about in its nature or appearance comes up, there's no way it should be catogorized as an abberation.

My main argument against Monstrous Humanoid is that MH are all natural creatures that can reproduce. My creature cannot reproduce. They are manufactured, not born.
sensestaker
06-05-07, 05:38 PM My main argument against Monstrous Humanoid is that MH are all natural creatures that can reproduce. My creature cannot reproduce. They are manufactured, not born.

Creaton doesn't automatically affect type. The voidmind template from MMIII can only be created from a living creature and gives it DR, SR, a Cone of Slime attack and a sentient tentacle of psionic goo, but its type doesn't change at all.
Baptor
06-05-07, 09:48 PM Creaton doesn't automatically affect type. The voidmind template from MMIII can only be created from a living creature and gives it DR, SR, a Cone of Slime attack and a sentient tentacle of psionic goo, but its type doesn't change at all.

This isn't a template. That makes all the difference. We arent making an augmented human, we are using the human infant as a spell component to create another creature, so to speak.
Disciple_of_Juiblex
06-05-07, 10:37 PM Im leaning aberration.

Aberations are creatures outside the natural order. Mind flayers are time travelers and former other races (usually former humans), neogi (sp) are space traveling alliens, skum are warped humans, Chulls where created by a mad wizard (if i remember right) as where mageripper swarm, aboloths are so ancient the no longet belong in this time, the dolgreim is a "half-dead" creature, and beholders where created directly by a god.

These creatures are now former humans who have been transformed into something outside the norms or reality as we know it, thus making it an aberration
Khalarak Ironclaw
06-06-07, 03:25 AM I'd say aberration, if for no other reason than flavor. These aren't brutal labyrinth-dwellers, serpent-worshipping cultists or corrupted nymphs (if that is indeed the origin of the D&D medusa). Its a creature warped and removed from the natural order by magics no sane person would traffic in. Picture it this way: would someone, such as a ranger, who hates the alien horrors that are aberrations and specializes in hunting them ignore one of these creatures in favor of tracking down and killing a minotaur or doppelganger? I'd say no. And for the record, I find a silent, blank-faced killer far more terrifying than a squid-head.
Dead_Weasel
06-06-07, 05:13 AM I am not going to quote this on the board, since it contains fairly mature details, but I think that the third answer given in letter should provide some more material for thought on the type myrdraal possess, and help to familiarize anyone who has not investigated the Wheel of Time.

I take no responsibility for any/all mental scarring; leave your kids at home this time. Letter to Pat Korda (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Letter_to_Pat_Korda_1995).
Baptor
06-06-07, 05:27 AM I am not going to quote this on the board, since it contains fairly mature details, but I think that the third answer given in letter should provide some more material for thought on the type myrdraal possess, and help to familiarize anyone who has not investigated the Wheel of Time.

I take no responsibility for any/all mental scarring; leave your kids at home this time. Letter to Pat Korda (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Letter_to_Pat_Korda_1995).

Thanks for that. Thought it bears mentioning that this creature I have made is loosley based on the myrdraal and not identical to it. Hence its creation, features, etc are not a match on certain levels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Baptor 06-05-07, 12:01 AM	Hello, I am creating a monster that is loosley based on the the Myrdraal from Wheel of Time (aka Fade, Half-Man, etc.). This creature is created by taking the infant of a humanoid creature and using a special version of Bestow Curse, which turns the infant into this aforementioned monster in a matter of days. The creature is humanoid in shape, but has no face at all and speaks telepathically. They are wholly evil and live only to slaughter and terrorize at the behest of the evil wizards that create them. They have a fear gaze and can spread disease, and are very difficult to kill (regeneration). So, I mean is it a humanoid? Its created with evil magic, not born per-say. It cannot reproduce. Doesn't seem to fit the standard "humanoid" stuff, except that it is a bipedal creature with two arms and a head.
sensestaker 06-05-07, 12:05 AM	From what you describe, I'd say Monsterous Humanoid. Being unfamiliar with the original, though, it's difficult to judge for certain.
Rerecros 06-05-07, 12:20 AM	What level of regeneration did it have? How could they be killed? Did they eat? Breath? sleep? I'm leaning aberration as of now, but they might be undead.
sensestaker 06-05-07, 12:35 AM	I'm leaning aberration as of now, but they might be undead. Aberration usually have abberant physiology ex. Aboleths. Wierd things with wierd powers that still look roughly humanoid are usually Monstrous Humanoids ex. Medusas. This creature is created by taking the infant of a humanoid creature and using a special version of Bestow Curse, which turns the infant into this aforementioned monster in a matter of days. The creature is humanoid in shape, but has no face at all and speaks telepathically. They are wholly evil and live only to slaughter and terrorize at the behest of the evil wizards that create them. They have a fear gaze and can spread disease, and are very difficult to kill (regeneration). Doesn't seem to fit the standard "humanoid" stuff, except that it is a bipedal creature with two arms and a head. Thus, this is a Monstrous Humanoid.
Rerecros 06-05-07, 12:55 AM	:rofl: aberrations can't be humanoid? :rolleyes: ever hear of Skum? Elans? Ethergaunts? freak'n mindflayers?
sensestaker 06-05-07, 01:10 AM	:rofl: aberrations can't be humanoid? :rolleyes: ever hear of Skum? Elans? Ethergaunts? freak'n mindflayers? :rolleyes: First off, I said USUALLY, not ALWAYS. Secondly, the only thing anatomically off about this is no face-NOT a face full of tentacles or appearence so hideous that it causes stupification amongst mortals, and it doesn't posess any off-the-wall powers like mindblast. And as for the final qualification for Abberationhood, living to kill doesn't qualify as an "alien mindset" in my book. Ever hear of Gnolls?
Tevish Szat 06-05-07, 01:26 AM	aberration, probably. in the vein of Mind Flayers (also made from humans, albeit adult humans)
Rerecros 06-05-07, 01:31 AM	Talk about an alien mindset :rolleyes: Facelessness vs tentacle face, what exactly are your criteria for weirdness here? Skum and Elan were once human, they are now transformed into creatures outside of the natural order, like your race here, so they are probably abberations, or undead. :)
sensestaker 06-05-07, 01:48 AM	Talk about an alien mindset :rolleyes: Facelessness vs tentacle face, what exactly are your criteria for weirdness here? Skum and Elan were once human, they are now transformed into creatures outside of the natural order, like your race here, so they are probably abberations, or undead. :) Elans I am unfamiliar with, and so I cannot speak in relation to them, but Skum were turned into Abberations BY Abberations. Mindflayers also have a lot more going for them than just looking wierd. These just have Regen (like trolls-not abberations) disease (like dire rats-not abberations) and fear (like krenshars-not abberations) And which would you be more freaked out about meeting in a datk alley-something with no face that might make you afraid and sick, or something with an octopus for a face that will suck your brain out of your skull? O vs. http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/edoom/Gost.gif I know who I'd run from faster.
Baptor 06-05-07, 02:39 AM	I appreciate all the comments thus far. Keep it up! I will say to the last poster, is how terrifying something appears governing whether it is an Aberration or not? Because that is relative. As far as more details; Do they sleep? No, they do not sleep. If they do rest, it is probably standing up, and you could not tell yourself because they have no eyes or anything to give this away. BTW they see via Blindsight. Eat? Hmm, I had not thought about that. I suppose they could eat, but I don't know how'd they eat. They are not undead, they have a working physiology of organs, blood, etc. I'd say they do breathe...somehow. Here are the complete powers; Fear Gaze Disease-attack Telepathy Detect Magic (line of sight) Regeneration (not sure of how to stop regen yet, perhaps good-aligned weaponry) Shadow Travel (can teleport into and out of shadowy areas, see the Shade ability as an example) The creatures carry and use weapons and armor. They are already calculated into the CR. There are no male/female versions, they have no gender and cannot reproduce. They can only exist if created. They live to kill and serve their dark masters. They have a will of their own, but not beyond service to some dark power, such as an evil spellcaster or a demon. Even some diabolical bards have been known to create and use them (even though Bards cannot cast Bestow Curse, they have spells and methods that can be substituted). Right now I am leaning in favor of those who say Abberation. They don't have six arms or float or anything like that, but neither do Illithid. I see these creatures as only slightly less-weird than Illithid, and far too strange to be humanoids. I am still open for debate, however, so please keep leaving comments! Another thought, could they be constructs since they are created? It sounds a little crazy to me but there are some crazy constructs out there such as Retrievers.
Light_Colonel 06-05-07, 06:18 AM	I would say look up the "Scion of Evil" template from either Heros of Horror or Libris Mortis (can't remember which); since that template does essentially the same sort of thing you are talking about, I would say whatever the template makes you, your mystery monster is.
Radijs 06-05-07, 07:47 AM	I'm strongly leaning towards abberation. Such a whole mess of special qualities doesn't fit in monstrous humanoid to me.
Light_Colonel 06-05-07, 01:10 PM	A good backup choice for type might be Outsider(native) as well. I am not really sure of the specifics of the creatures you are talking about, however if they come from somewhere else and they turn normal people into their kind, I could see them being Outsiders.
Baptor 06-05-07, 02:28 PM	A good backup choice for type might be Outsider(native) as well. I am not really sure of the specifics of the creatures you are talking about, however if they come from somewhere else and they turn normal people into their kind, I could see them being Outsiders. They don't come from "somewhere else". They are created via evil magic out of normal humanoids from the Prime. To put it into very basic terms; An evil wizard casts a spell on a baby, the baby transforms into this evil creature.
Babzidu 06-05-07, 02:47 PM	Abberation, definitely. However, Light_Colonel puts up a good point. Unholy Scion might be similar to what you're looking for. It involves infusing a large amount of pure evil into a human newborn or fetus. The former child then transforms into a creature somewhat similar to half-fiend but it looks different, has fast healing and a whole slew of other abilities.
Baptor 06-05-07, 03:07 PM	Abberation, definitely. However, Light_Colonel puts up a good point. Unholy Scion might be similar to what you're looking for. It involves infusing a large amount of pure evil into a human newborn or fetus. The former child then transforms into a creature somewhat similar to half-fiend but it looks different, has fast healing and a whole slew of other abilities. I went to my local bookstore and took a peek at that template. Its def not what I am looking for. The Unholy Scion when it is born/matures still looks absolutley normal (although it may make people uneasy). My faceless nightmare is certainly nothing like the innocent baby it was spawned from.
Babzidu 06-05-07, 03:14 PM	Eh, I tried. You could of course, change the unholy scion's appearance, seeing as it's your campeign.
sensestaker 06-05-07, 03:21 PM	I'm really not sure where all this support for abberation is coming from. If you look at other creatures of similiar features and power, most are Monstrous Humanoid-harpies, medusas, hags-all look strange and have some sort of supernatural abilities. This thing definately isn't more abberant that a thri-kreen from MMII which is insectile, has 4 arms and innate psionics, yet is still just a Monstrous Humanoid. The only thing anyone's been able to say to argue otherwise is "Mindflayer" which, in my opinion, was cast into the abberation group due to the predominant "anything-with-tentacles=Cthulu" mindset. Compare its physiology and powers REALISTICALLY to what else is out there and, unless something else major that hasn't been talked about in its nature or appearance comes up, there's no way it should be catogorized as an abberation.
Baptor 06-05-07, 05:24 PM	I'm really not sure where all this support for abberation is coming from. If you look at other creatures of similiar features and power, most are Monstrous Humanoid-harpies, medusas, hags-all look strange and have some sort of supernatural abilities. This thing definately isn't more abberant that a thri-kreen from MMII which is insectile, has 4 arms and innate psionics, yet is still just a Monstrous Humanoid. The only thing anyone's been able to say to argue otherwise is "Mindflayer" which, in my opinion, was cast into the abberation group due to the predominant "anything-with-tentacles=Cthulu" mindset. Compare its physiology and powers REALISTICALLY to what else is out there and, unless something else major that hasn't been talked about in its nature or appearance comes up, there's no way it should be catogorized as an abberation. My main argument against Monstrous Humanoid is that MH are all natural creatures that can reproduce. My creature cannot reproduce. They are manufactured, not born.
sensestaker 06-05-07, 05:38 PM	My main argument against Monstrous Humanoid is that MH are all natural creatures that can reproduce. My creature cannot reproduce. They are manufactured, not born. Creaton doesn't automatically affect type. The voidmind template from MMIII can only be created from a living creature and gives it DR, SR, a Cone of Slime attack and a sentient tentacle of psionic goo, but its type doesn't change at all.
Baptor 06-05-07, 09:48 PM	Creaton doesn't automatically affect type. The voidmind template from MMIII can only be created from a living creature and gives it DR, SR, a Cone of Slime attack and a sentient tentacle of psionic goo, but its type doesn't change at all. This isn't a template. That makes all the difference. We arent making an augmented human, we are using the human infant as a spell component to create another creature, so to speak.
Disciple_of_Juiblex 06-05-07, 10:37 PM	Im leaning aberration. Aberations are creatures outside the natural order. Mind flayers are time travelers and former other races (usually former humans), neogi (sp) are space traveling alliens, skum are warped humans, Chulls where created by a mad wizard (if i remember right) as where mageripper swarm, aboloths are so ancient the no longet belong in this time, the dolgreim is a "half-dead" creature, and beholders where created directly by a god. These creatures are now former humans who have been transformed into something outside the norms or reality as we know it, thus making it an aberration
Khalarak Ironclaw 06-06-07, 03:25 AM	I'd say aberration, if for no other reason than flavor. These aren't brutal labyrinth-dwellers, serpent-worshipping cultists or corrupted nymphs (if that is indeed the origin of the D&D medusa). Its a creature warped and removed from the natural order by magics no sane person would traffic in. Picture it this way: would someone, such as a ranger, who hates the alien horrors that are aberrations and specializes in hunting them ignore one of these creatures in favor of tracking down and killing a minotaur or doppelganger? I'd say no. And for the record, I find a silent, blank-faced killer far more terrifying than a squid-head.
Dead_Weasel 06-06-07, 05:13 AM	I am not going to quote this on the board, since it contains fairly mature details, but I think that the third answer given in letter should provide some more material for thought on the type myrdraal possess, and help to familiarize anyone who has not investigated the Wheel of Time. I take no responsibility for any/all mental scarring; leave your kids at home this time. Letter to Pat Korda (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Letter_to_Pat_Korda_1995).
Baptor 06-06-07, 05:27 AM	I am not going to quote this on the board, since it contains fairly mature details, but I think that the third answer given in letter should provide some more material for thought on the type myrdraal possess, and help to familiarize anyone who has not investigated the Wheel of Time. I take no responsibility for any/all mental scarring; leave your kids at home this time. Letter to Pat Korda (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Letter_to_Pat_Korda_1995). Thanks for that. Thought it bears mentioning that this creature I have made is loosley based on the myrdraal and not identical to it. Hence its creation, features, etc are not a match on certain levels.