Cave dinosaurs as animal companions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cave dinosaurs as animal companions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Senka
08-06-07, 12:12 PM According to the Player’s Handbook II, cave dinosaurs (from the Miniatures Handbook) are available as animal companions at Effective Druid Level -6 (for the cave ankylosaurus) and -9 (for the cave triceratops and tyrannosaurus). From a player perspective, would a cave dinosaur be a good animal companion?

I found this rather odd, as the cave ankylosaurus is the most powerful of the cave dinosaurs. Perhaps the PHB2 gets it wrong? On the other hand, the cave ankylosaurus was the least Hit Dice of the cave dinosaurs, so perhaps the Miniature Handbook’s CR is in error.

Finally, regarding cave dinosaur mutations: could a cave dinosaur animal companion have a mutation? Would it be “free” or should the effective druid level necessary for that companion be increased by 1 or (in the case of poison or wings) 2?

I would like to have a cave dinosaur companion, so I would appreciate any help on this matter.

-Senka
GoriceXII
08-06-07, 02:01 PM I'd wonder how available such critters are in your campaign. However let's assume that they are. I think that the druid needs to be able to make that adjustment, I don't think it would be free unless the local critter population had mutations.
Senka
08-10-07, 02:06 PM That’s what I was thinking… but from a power perspective I think cave dinos are already pretty good as animals companions, so a bit more negative EDL isn’t exactly going to make them bad…
Ogreman
08-10-07, 04:14 PM On a related note, Cave Triceratops is an excellent form for Wild Shape, because of the Powerful Charge/Trample combo. I believe this is called the 'Triceratops Shuffle.'
moosekickedmysisterstoof
08-13-07, 03:44 PM I don't have access to the Miniatures Handbook, but I was wondering if anyone could maybe clue me in on some history of cave dinos, the different types and maybe even these mutations you mentioned?

- John
Senka
08-16-07, 12:44 PM Cave dinosaurs are specially bred (by the yuan-ti) dinosaurs designed for living underground. They are smaller then normal dinosaurs of their kind (I think they are all Large), due to their habitat. A handful have mutations (ranging from increased ability scores to wings) thanks to yuan-ti experimentation. The only three kinds of cave dinosaur are the ones I mentioned in the opening post (though I’d like more!).

Their artwork look pretty cool (I mean, that’s how I’d imagine a dire tyrannosaurus).

Ahh, I didn’t think of them as wildshape forms, just as potential companions. I’ll have to try this next time I play a druid (which I like doing). Thanks!

-Senka
Hellsbells
08-16-07, 01:32 PM I start my campaigns standing infront of a hangman's noose. (in anwser to your sig senka). Wish I could help but I don't have miniatures handbook.
moosekickedmysisterstoof
08-16-07, 03:59 PM The only three kinds of cave dinosaur are the ones I mentioned in the opening post (though I’d like more!).

I would create more if I knew more about them. Do they have different special attacks than normal dinosaurs? How much weaker are they? I guess I need to try and find their stats.

- John
moosekickedmysisterstoof
08-17-07, 04:09 PM Cave Spinosaurus

Large Animal
HD: 10d8+23 (68 hp)
Init: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
AC: 19 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +8 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+19
Attack: Bite +15 melee (2d6+8)
Full Attack: Bite +15 melee (2d6+8) and 2 claws +10 melee (1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 10ft/10ft
Special Attacks: Frightful presence, improved grab, swallow whole, trample 2d6+10
Special Quality: Darkvision 60 ft., scent
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +7
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 15, Con 15,
Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +8, Spot +8, Survival +5
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Toughness, Weapon Focus (Bite)
Environment: Underground
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-8 plus 50% chance for 1 pack leader with 16 HD)
CR: 7
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 12-16 HD (Large); 17-29 HD (Huge)
LA: --

Long, webbed spines adorn the back of this primeval horror. It has a long, narrow skull with a mouth full of conical fangs and its front limbs are well equipped with sickle shaped claws that could flay through flesh and armor.

The cave spinosaurus is a fearsome subterranean carnivore with a savage disposition. Bred by the serpentine Yuan-Ti, the beasts proved to be much more fierce and wily than the other cave dinosaurs. Because domestication of the animals proved too difficult, the Yuan-Ti strategically released packs of cave spinosaurs in remote locations (often near their hidden temples) to act as free-roaming "guard dogs".
A cave spinosaurus is roughly 14 feet long from snout to tail, and weighs around 600 pounds.

Combat:

A cave spinosaurus charges into combat with a blood-curdling roar. With its prey panicked and disoriented, it tramples smaller creatures under its clawed feet then attempts to seize and swallow them whole. When faced with larger foes, it slashes wildly with its talons and bites with its powerful jaws.

Frightful Presence (Ex): As a standard action, a cave spinosaurus can let loose a terrifying roar that can shakes its foes to the core. Creatures within 30 feet of the dinosaur with 10 or less HD must make a Will save (DC 15) or become panicked for 4d6 rounds. Creatures who succeed on the Will save remain immune to the dinosaur's frightful presence for 24 hours.

Improved Grab (Ex):To use this ability, a cave spinosaurus must hit an opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe in the following round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A cave spinosaurus can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to two sizes smaller by making a successful grapple check.
The swallowed creature takes 2d6+8 points of bludgeoning damage and 6 points of acid damage from the cave spinosaur's gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 20 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 14). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cuts its own way out.
A Large cave spinosaurus's gizzard can hold 2 Small, 8 Tiny, or 32 Diminutive or smaller opponents.

Trample (Ex): Reflex half DC 23. The save DC is Strength-based.

I'm not sure about the CR. What do ya think?

- John
moosekickedmysisterstoof
08-17-07, 10:24 PM I also plan on making some other cave dinos once I find stats for them.

- John
Senka
08-20-07, 12:11 PM Cave dinosaurs don’t have any special abilities (besides the random mutations that there’s a table for), I think they are just scaled-down versions of other dinosaurs.

The existing cave dinos have CR 6 (the ankylosaur) and 5 (the other two).

I’d give your cave spinosaur a Cr of 6 to 7, though I’m really no good at gauging monsters (hence part of my first post).

I’d love to see more custom cave dinos, so please keep up the good work!

-Senka

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Senka 08-06-07, 12:12 PM	According to the Player’s Handbook II, cave dinosaurs (from the Miniatures Handbook) are available as animal companions at Effective Druid Level -6 (for the cave ankylosaurus) and -9 (for the cave triceratops and tyrannosaurus). From a player perspective, would a cave dinosaur be a good animal companion? I found this rather odd, as the cave ankylosaurus is the most powerful of the cave dinosaurs. Perhaps the PHB2 gets it wrong? On the other hand, the cave ankylosaurus was the least Hit Dice of the cave dinosaurs, so perhaps the Miniature Handbook’s CR is in error. Finally, regarding cave dinosaur mutations: could a cave dinosaur animal companion have a mutation? Would it be “free” or should the effective druid level necessary for that companion be increased by 1 or (in the case of poison or wings) 2? I would like to have a cave dinosaur companion, so I would appreciate any help on this matter. -Senka
GoriceXII 08-06-07, 02:01 PM	I'd wonder how available such critters are in your campaign. However let's assume that they are. I think that the druid needs to be able to make that adjustment, I don't think it would be free unless the local critter population had mutations.
Senka 08-10-07, 02:06 PM	That’s what I was thinking… but from a power perspective I think cave dinos are already pretty good as animals companions, so a bit more negative EDL isn’t exactly going to make them bad…
Ogreman 08-10-07, 04:14 PM	On a related note, Cave Triceratops is an excellent form for Wild Shape, because of the Powerful Charge/Trample combo. I believe this is called the 'Triceratops Shuffle.'
moosekickedmysisterstoof 08-13-07, 03:44 PM	I don't have access to the Miniatures Handbook, but I was wondering if anyone could maybe clue me in on some history of cave dinos, the different types and maybe even these mutations you mentioned? - John
Senka 08-16-07, 12:44 PM	Cave dinosaurs are specially bred (by the yuan-ti) dinosaurs designed for living underground. They are smaller then normal dinosaurs of their kind (I think they are all Large), due to their habitat. A handful have mutations (ranging from increased ability scores to wings) thanks to yuan-ti experimentation. The only three kinds of cave dinosaur are the ones I mentioned in the opening post (though I’d like more!). Their artwork look pretty cool (I mean, that’s how I’d imagine a dire tyrannosaurus). Ahh, I didn’t think of them as wildshape forms, just as potential companions. I’ll have to try this next time I play a druid (which I like doing). Thanks! -Senka
Hellsbells 08-16-07, 01:32 PM	I start my campaigns standing infront of a hangman's noose. (in anwser to your sig senka). Wish I could help but I don't have miniatures handbook.
moosekickedmysisterstoof 08-16-07, 03:59 PM	The only three kinds of cave dinosaur are the ones I mentioned in the opening post (though I’d like more!). I would create more if I knew more about them. Do they have different special attacks than normal dinosaurs? How much weaker are they? I guess I need to try and find their stats. - John
moosekickedmysisterstoof 08-17-07, 04:09 PM	Cave Spinosaurus Large Animal HD: 10d8+23 (68 hp) Init: +2 Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares) AC: 19 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +8 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17 Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+19 Attack: Bite +15 melee (2d6+8) Full Attack: Bite +15 melee (2d6+8) and 2 claws +10 melee (1d8+4) Space/Reach: 10ft/10ft Special Attacks: Frightful presence, improved grab, swallow whole, trample 2d6+10 Special Quality: Darkvision 60 ft., scent Saves: Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +7 Abilities: Str 26, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10 Skills: Listen +8, Spot +8, Survival +5 Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Toughness, Weapon Focus (Bite) Environment: Underground Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-8 plus 50% chance for 1 pack leader with 16 HD) CR: 7 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 12-16 HD (Large); 17-29 HD (Huge) LA: -- Long, webbed spines adorn the back of this primeval horror. It has a long, narrow skull with a mouth full of conical fangs and its front limbs are well equipped with sickle shaped claws that could flay through flesh and armor. The cave spinosaurus is a fearsome subterranean carnivore with a savage disposition. Bred by the serpentine Yuan-Ti, the beasts proved to be much more fierce and wily than the other cave dinosaurs. Because domestication of the animals proved too difficult, the Yuan-Ti strategically released packs of cave spinosaurs in remote locations (often near their hidden temples) to act as free-roaming "guard dogs". A cave spinosaurus is roughly 14 feet long from snout to tail, and weighs around 600 pounds. Combat: A cave spinosaurus charges into combat with a blood-curdling roar. With its prey panicked and disoriented, it tramples smaller creatures under its clawed feet then attempts to seize and swallow them whole. When faced with larger foes, it slashes wildly with its talons and bites with its powerful jaws. Frightful Presence (Ex): As a standard action, a cave spinosaurus can let loose a terrifying roar that can shakes its foes to the core. Creatures within 30 feet of the dinosaur with 10 or less HD must make a Will save (DC 15) or become panicked for 4d6 rounds. Creatures who succeed on the Will save remain immune to the dinosaur's frightful presence for 24 hours. Improved Grab (Ex):To use this ability, a cave spinosaurus must hit an opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe in the following round. Swallow Whole (Ex): A cave spinosaurus can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to two sizes smaller by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature takes 2d6+8 points of bludgeoning damage and 6 points of acid damage from the cave spinosaur's gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 20 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 14). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cuts its own way out. A Large cave spinosaurus's gizzard can hold 2 Small, 8 Tiny, or 32 Diminutive or smaller opponents. Trample (Ex): Reflex half DC 23. The save DC is Strength-based. I'm not sure about the CR. What do ya think? - John
moosekickedmysisterstoof 08-17-07, 10:24 PM	I also plan on making some other cave dinos once I find stats for them. - John
Senka 08-20-07, 12:11 PM	Cave dinosaurs don’t have any special abilities (besides the random mutations that there’s a table for), I think they are just scaled-down versions of other dinosaurs. The existing cave dinos have CR 6 (the ankylosaur) and 5 (the other two). I’d give your cave spinosaur a Cr of 6 to 7, though I’m really no good at gauging monsters (hence part of my first post). I’d love to see more custom cave dinos, so please keep up the good work! -Senka