Centaurs and Large-size weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Centaurs and Large-size weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lady Maedhros
12-21-06, 05:47 PM Why? And am I the only one who fixes that when I run them?

Actually, I've never run a centaur, specifically - they're inescapeaby Greek to me in a way that minotaurs and pegasi aren't, for some reason, so I keep them out of my not-at-all-Greek homebrew - but I've run other tauric creatures, like driders and a medium-sized cougar/halfling crossbreed, for example, and I always give them appropriate weapons for the humanoid half. A centaur's hands are the same size as a human's, his shoulders and upper spinal column have the same basic weight-bearing capabilities as a human's, so why is he holding weapons built for an ogre?

It's a super-easy fix to bump the damage dice down and I can't imagine anyone looking at the centaur entry in total confusion, going "OMG it's Large, why is its longsword Meduim?!?", so... does WotC really think we're that dumb that we need weapon sizes to match creature sizes every time? Or is higher weapon damage some kind of desperately integral part of the play balance of the size-increasing process (even though reach obviously isn't)?
SageBahamut
12-21-06, 06:07 PM Because a centaur's hands aren't the same size as a human's hands. He's not the same size as a man on a horse, he's slightly larger, and his build is proportional. There's also the matter of his improved leverage. If you want a modern pop-culture reference, look at the centaur in Harry Potter. He's more porportionally close to Hagrid (a half-giant and fellow Large creature) than to a normal human.

There's also the point that it's RAW, which may or may not matter.
Ogre4Hire
12-21-06, 08:09 PM Personally, I'm more curious as to why every 2 months or so someone new pops up and announces that they've "fixed" Centaur weapons.
Zodiaq7
12-21-06, 08:45 PM I'd be interested in that cougar/halfling thing you cooked up. Did you just use the templates from Savage Species or is there something special to it that, like catsup, makes it so, so good?
runestar
12-21-06, 10:35 PM If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it is broken, then ban everything else until it is no longer broke, than ban it.;)

They are large, and thus wield large weapons. Convenient enough for me, no need to remember: oh, they are large but use medium sized weapons...
Lady Maedhros
12-22-06, 12:43 AM Because a centaur's hands aren't the same size as a human's hands. He's not the same size as a man on a horse, he's slightly larger, and his build is proportional.

Not having much affection or concern for Harry Potter, particularly the movieverse, I'll have to take your word on that, but the drawing in the MM, if we're to take the text's "7 feet tall" as gospel, is certainly no bigger in the torso than an orc. He looks to be about three feet from the waist to the top of the head, in fact, which is pretty much dead-on for a tall human.

And even if we accept centaurs in specific as taller, what about driders? They're mangled drow - their top half started elf and still is elf (in fact, in the illustration, the drider's torso is smaller than that of his Medium victim). Or what about lamia? They're eight feet long and only 700 pounds; 600 of that is cat, leaving us a pretty small torso considering.

They are large, and thus wield large weapons. Convenient enough for me, no need to remember: oh, they are large but use medium sized weapons...

We distinguish already between different types of Large creatures - some have 10 foot reach (because they're Large [tall]), some have only 5 foot reach (because they're Large [long]). If we can handle that, what's so complicated about admitting that some Large creatures use Medium weapons? Especially since it's pretty much all the ones with 5 foot reach anyway, so we're not even making a new subdivision?

I'd be interested in that cougar/halfling thing you cooked up. Did you just use the templates from Savage Species or is there something special to it that, like catsup, makes it so, so good?

It starts from the tauric template (courtesy of the nice folks in the ole monster thread), but I tossed most of the halfling stuff and added a sort of stonecunning ability to account for their uncanny sense of the shifting stones and gravel of their mountain lairs, plus some combat bonuses against giants. Their society is part American Indian, part Twelve Tribes of Israel and they're very useful for wool and cheese when you're trying to cross the mountains (or for a very nasty ambush with rockslides and a small forest of arrow shafts sticking out of your shoulders should the PCs get too cocky). I call 'em Siwasu. Haven't had much chance to use 'em yet, unfortunately. My players always seem to want to go south. :pbbbtt:
Prime32
12-22-06, 11:22 AM "Ah, good. With eight legs it won't fall over like a human."

So, yeah, leverage and stabilty, all that.
FreAkOuTRG
12-22-06, 03:39 PM Hehe... haven't read animorphs in a while..

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lady Maedhros 12-21-06, 05:47 PM	Why? And am I the only one who fixes that when I run them? Actually, I've never run a centaur, specifically - they're inescapeaby Greek to me in a way that minotaurs and pegasi aren't, for some reason, so I keep them out of my not-at-all-Greek homebrew - but I've run other tauric creatures, like driders and a medium-sized cougar/halfling crossbreed, for example, and I always give them appropriate weapons for the humanoid half. A centaur's hands are the same size as a human's, his shoulders and upper spinal column have the same basic weight-bearing capabilities as a human's, so why is he holding weapons built for an ogre? It's a super-easy fix to bump the damage dice down and I can't imagine anyone looking at the centaur entry in total confusion, going "OMG it's Large, why is its longsword Meduim?!?", so... does WotC really think we're that dumb that we need weapon sizes to match creature sizes every time? Or is higher weapon damage some kind of desperately integral part of the play balance of the size-increasing process (even though reach obviously isn't)?
SageBahamut 12-21-06, 06:07 PM	Because a centaur's hands aren't the same size as a human's hands. He's not the same size as a man on a horse, he's slightly larger, and his build is proportional. There's also the matter of his improved leverage. If you want a modern pop-culture reference, look at the centaur in Harry Potter. He's more porportionally close to Hagrid (a half-giant and fellow Large creature) than to a normal human. There's also the point that it's RAW, which may or may not matter.
Ogre4Hire 12-21-06, 08:09 PM	Personally, I'm more curious as to why every 2 months or so someone new pops up and announces that they've "fixed" Centaur weapons.
Zodiaq7 12-21-06, 08:45 PM	I'd be interested in that cougar/halfling thing you cooked up. Did you just use the templates from Savage Species or is there something special to it that, like catsup, makes it so, so good?
runestar 12-21-06, 10:35 PM	If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it is broken, then ban everything else until it is no longer broke, than ban it.;) They are large, and thus wield large weapons. Convenient enough for me, no need to remember: oh, they are large but use medium sized weapons...
Lady Maedhros 12-22-06, 12:43 AM	Because a centaur's hands aren't the same size as a human's hands. He's not the same size as a man on a horse, he's slightly larger, and his build is proportional. Not having much affection or concern for Harry Potter, particularly the movieverse, I'll have to take your word on that, but the drawing in the MM, if we're to take the text's "7 feet tall" as gospel, is certainly no bigger in the torso than an orc. He looks to be about three feet from the waist to the top of the head, in fact, which is pretty much dead-on for a tall human. And even if we accept centaurs in specific as taller, what about driders? They're mangled drow - their top half started elf and still is elf (in fact, in the illustration, the drider's torso is smaller than that of his Medium victim). Or what about lamia? They're eight feet long and only 700 pounds; 600 of that is cat, leaving us a pretty small torso considering. They are large, and thus wield large weapons. Convenient enough for me, no need to remember: oh, they are large but use medium sized weapons... We distinguish already between different types of Large creatures - some have 10 foot reach (because they're Large [tall]), some have only 5 foot reach (because they're Large [long]). If we can handle that, what's so complicated about admitting that some Large creatures use Medium weapons? Especially since it's pretty much all the ones with 5 foot reach anyway, so we're not even making a new subdivision? I'd be interested in that cougar/halfling thing you cooked up. Did you just use the templates from Savage Species or is there something special to it that, like catsup, makes it so, so good? It starts from the tauric template (courtesy of the nice folks in the ole monster thread), but I tossed most of the halfling stuff and added a sort of stonecunning ability to account for their uncanny sense of the shifting stones and gravel of their mountain lairs, plus some combat bonuses against giants. Their society is part American Indian, part Twelve Tribes of Israel and they're very useful for wool and cheese when you're trying to cross the mountains (or for a very nasty ambush with rockslides and a small forest of arrow shafts sticking out of your shoulders should the PCs get too cocky). I call 'em Siwasu. Haven't had much chance to use 'em yet, unfortunately. My players always seem to want to go south. :pbbbtt:
Prime32 12-22-06, 11:22 AM	"Ah, good. With eight legs it won't fall over like a human." So, yeah, leverage and stabilty, all that.
FreAkOuTRG 12-22-06, 03:39 PM	Hehe... haven't read animorphs in a while..