Certainly my eyes deceive me.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Certainly my eyes deceive me.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Paladin's Pride
06-26-03, 11:36 PM The most surprising thing about the new 3.5 red dragon entry are the level adjustments. +6 for a young red dragon. Assuming the 3.5 young red dragon doesn't differ much from the current one (a reasonable assumption since the very old dragon given is nearly identical with only a few changes), this is an incredible value for a +6 level adjustment

13 hit dice (and DRAGON hit dice of all things)

this means
+13 base attack
a base +8 in all saves
a slew of skills
4-5 feats ( believe monsters get feats every 3 hit dice instead of four now)

in addition, they get
+12 natural armor
a 6d10 breath weapon
casts as a first level sorcerer

flight at 150 ft. per round

Attribute adjustments of str +14, dex +0, con +6, int +2, wis +2, cha+2

All this for +6 Level adjustment. Someone tell me I'm missing something please!
JustKim
06-27-03, 01:25 AM You do know that LA is added to total HD to get a creature's total ECL, right? So your dragon would be ECL 19, not 6.
Paladin's Pride
06-27-03, 06:34 AM ah, really? where did this rule first appear? it has never worked this way for any creature I know of, but it certainly would make sense. a young red dragon being equivalent to a 19th level seems much more appropriate to me by far.
The Venerable Archmage
06-27-03, 07:11 AM I believe this rule appeared first in Savage Species, which altered the definitions of quite a few terms involved in the creation of monster PCs.
Paladin's Pride
06-27-03, 11:30 AM Y'know, that's really irritating. Supplements should not change widely used terms like level adjustment on the spot. Yeesh, I skip buying one supplement and all of a sudden I feel like a newb again, not knowing what core terminology means.
Chobemaster
06-27-03, 11:47 AM Originally posted by Paladin's Pride
Y'know, that's really irritating. Supplements should not change widely used terms like level adjustment on the spot. Yeesh, I skip buying one supplement and all of a sudden I feel like a newb again, not knowing what core terminology means.

LA is a new term the core term was, and remains, ECL.
ruleslawyer
06-27-03, 04:32 PM Also keep in mind that this is the 3.5 red dragon. No doubt, the 3.5 core rules will elaborate on ECL and LA.
Thrudjelmer
06-28-03, 10:34 AM Originally posted by Chobemaster
LA is a new term the core term was, and remains, ECL.

Yes, Level Adjustments were added to help people figure out ECLs.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paladin's Pride 06-26-03, 11:36 PM	The most surprising thing about the new 3.5 red dragon entry are the level adjustments. +6 for a young red dragon. Assuming the 3.5 young red dragon doesn't differ much from the current one (a reasonable assumption since the very old dragon given is nearly identical with only a few changes), this is an incredible value for a +6 level adjustment 13 hit dice (and DRAGON hit dice of all things) this means +13 base attack a base +8 in all saves a slew of skills 4-5 feats ( believe monsters get feats every 3 hit dice instead of four now) in addition, they get +12 natural armor a 6d10 breath weapon casts as a first level sorcerer flight at 150 ft. per round Attribute adjustments of str +14, dex +0, con +6, int +2, wis +2, cha+2 All this for +6 Level adjustment. Someone tell me I'm missing something please!
JustKim 06-27-03, 01:25 AM	You do know that LA is added to total HD to get a creature's total ECL, right? So your dragon would be ECL 19, not 6.
Paladin's Pride 06-27-03, 06:34 AM	ah, really? where did this rule first appear? it has never worked this way for any creature I know of, but it certainly would make sense. a young red dragon being equivalent to a 19th level seems much more appropriate to me by far.
The Venerable Archmage 06-27-03, 07:11 AM	I believe this rule appeared first in Savage Species, which altered the definitions of quite a few terms involved in the creation of monster PCs.
Paladin's Pride 06-27-03, 11:30 AM	Y'know, that's really irritating. Supplements should not change widely used terms like level adjustment on the spot. Yeesh, I skip buying one supplement and all of a sudden I feel like a newb again, not knowing what core terminology means.
Chobemaster 06-27-03, 11:47 AM	Originally posted by Paladin's Pride Y'know, that's really irritating. Supplements should not change widely used terms like level adjustment on the spot. Yeesh, I skip buying one supplement and all of a sudden I feel like a newb again, not knowing what core terminology means. LA is a new term the core term was, and remains, ECL.
ruleslawyer 06-27-03, 04:32 PM	Also keep in mind that this is the 3.5 red dragon. No doubt, the 3.5 core rules will elaborate on ECL and LA.
Thrudjelmer 06-28-03, 10:34 AM	Originally posted by Chobemaster LA is a new term the core term was, and remains, ECL. Yes, Level Adjustments were added to help people figure out ECLs.