Challenge Rating - how to calculate it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Challenge Rating - how to calculate it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Disciple of Darkness
02-05-04, 01:44 AM I remember the basics for counting CR (monster's hit points / 3 + 1 or 2 for every special ability and attack / 4), but that's for 3rd Edition (and even there was some problems, like a monster with many hit points having a much greater CR than it should have) and I don't havy any clue how to calculate CR for 3.5 Edition critters. Is that calculation progress like the one in 3rd Edition, or has something changed? And how do you take into account the fact that a monster with huge number of hit points ends up with a CR much higher than it should be (I don't have my books in hand right now, but I can show you an example from the Monster Manual II)?

Thanks for your help in advance.
q'afuu
02-05-04, 05:22 AM I didn't even know there was a set of rules for that kind of thing. I simply figure out for which level iconic party the monster in questions is a normal challenge (or when creating one, I usually start with the CR I want and build the monster towards it). In all honesty, a rule like what you posted above seems a very crude measuring stick to me. Not all abilities or attacks are equally useful. Some are very good at low levels and meaningless higher up. A high number of HP in itself doesn't mean all that much when determining CR. That's just staying power, you can't damage anyone with your HP - and having a lot of them is completely bypassed by a caster with a save or die spell.
Zendu
02-05-04, 09:40 AM whatever you do, dont read the monstermanuel 2, that will just confuse you more, there is some....doubtful challange ratings in there, the jujumanjus and the juggernaugt come to mind
The Abominable Darkling
02-05-04, 11:21 AM You can't calculate challenge rating. In fact, you shouldn't even want to. Choose the CR before you design anything else about a creature.
cwslyclgh
02-05-04, 01:56 PM since the CR system hasn't realy changed between 3.0 and 3.5 the 3.0 method works just fine for calaculating an unknown cr (if you keep in mind the limitations you mentioned in the first post)... as AD stated it is generaly better to have a CR in mind when you begin making the monster, but you should still try to play test and tweak it if nessicary before you make the final CR discision. (I dissagree that you should decide the CR before you make up anything else about the creature... that is very limiting, I ussualy get a mental visual of the creature or a thought like a special attack that does x would be cool, etc... but a target CR should be something that you decide upon very early in the creation process.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Disciple of Darkness 02-05-04, 01:44 AM	I remember the basics for counting CR (monster's hit points / 3 + 1 or 2 for every special ability and attack / 4), but that's for 3rd Edition (and even there was some problems, like a monster with many hit points having a much greater CR than it should have) and I don't havy any clue how to calculate CR for 3.5 Edition critters. Is that calculation progress like the one in 3rd Edition, or has something changed? And how do you take into account the fact that a monster with huge number of hit points ends up with a CR much higher than it should be (I don't have my books in hand right now, but I can show you an example from the Monster Manual II)? Thanks for your help in advance.
q'afuu 02-05-04, 05:22 AM	I didn't even know there was a set of rules for that kind of thing. I simply figure out for which level iconic party the monster in questions is a normal challenge (or when creating one, I usually start with the CR I want and build the monster towards it). In all honesty, a rule like what you posted above seems a very crude measuring stick to me. Not all abilities or attacks are equally useful. Some are very good at low levels and meaningless higher up. A high number of HP in itself doesn't mean all that much when determining CR. That's just staying power, you can't damage anyone with your HP - and having a lot of them is completely bypassed by a caster with a save or die spell.
Zendu 02-05-04, 09:40 AM	whatever you do, dont read the monstermanuel 2, that will just confuse you more, there is some....doubtful challange ratings in there, the jujumanjus and the juggernaugt come to mind
The Abominable Darkling 02-05-04, 11:21 AM	You can't calculate challenge rating. In fact, you shouldn't even want to. Choose the CR before you design anything else about a creature.
cwslyclgh 02-05-04, 01:56 PM	since the CR system hasn't realy changed between 3.0 and 3.5 the 3.0 method works just fine for calaculating an unknown cr (if you keep in mind the limitations you mentioned in the first post)... as AD stated it is generaly better to have a CR in mind when you begin making the monster, but you should still try to play test and tweak it if nessicary before you make the final CR discision. (I dissagree that you should decide the CR before you make up anything else about the creature... that is very limiting, I ussualy get a mental visual of the creature or a thought like a special attack that does x would be cool, etc... but a target CR should be something that you decide upon very early in the creation process.)