Challenge Ratings? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Challenge Ratings? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Narzol87
12-12-07, 08:33 AM Okey.... can someone tell me... How the heck does Challenge Rating work ?

Here is why I'm wondering;

Page 87 Monster Manual V

Hobgoblin Warsoul CR 8
10 hit dice
Bab +9 (as a fighter)
Good will and Ref Saves.
Spells as a 9th level Wizard.
Iron Will as Bonus Feat.
2 Supernatural Abilities
2 Extraordinary Abilities

And generally being a hobgoblin which is pretty nasty in itself.

So concluding, I am Slightly how the Challenge Rating is calculated...

Does Anyone out there have an answer ^,^?
Goof
12-12-07, 11:51 AM Challenge rating is for an average party of 4 of that level will be expected to use up 80% of their resources to beat. (I think)

It's in the early pages of the monster manual, and in the DM guide you can look up using say X level Y characters to equal a challenge rating of Z.
Krusk
12-12-07, 07:37 PM Challenge rating is for an average party of 4 of that level will be expected to use up 80% of their resources to beat. (I think)

It's in the early pages of the monster manual, and in the DM guide you can look up using say X level Y characters to equal a challenge rating of Z.

Thought it was 20-25% of the reasources? that way you can have 3-4 encounters a day without using up 320% of your reasources.
Talisman
12-12-07, 07:48 PM Thought it was 20-25% of the reasources? that way you can have 3-4 encounters a day without using up 320% of your reasources.

:thumbsup:
Officially, it's 20% of your resources. Of course, a heavily optomized (or un-optomized) party can wreak havoc with those numbers. Also, the later MM's (MM3+) tend to have monsters that are more powerful for their CR. MM3 is especially bad about this.
ff6shadow
12-12-07, 08:42 PM Eh, MM2 is worse than MM3 for wrong CR's. But even the ones in the original are off occasionally are wrong.
Talisman
12-12-07, 09:21 PM Eh, MM2 is worse than MM3 for wrong CR's. But even the ones in the original are off occasionally are wrong.

MM2 is far and away the worst for wrong CRs. However, MM3 holds the crown for beasties that are powerful for their CR.
ff6shadow
12-12-07, 10:23 PM Strong, wrong, both have a tendency to cause TPK's. I tend to avoid both books without alot of caution.
Talisman
12-12-07, 11:12 PM I actually like MM3 a lot...my players tend to be fiendishly cunning at strategy and resource management, so I enjoy finding beasties that can challenge them "as-is." The charnal hound was a lot of fun. :devil:
Krusk
12-13-07, 12:15 AM I rarely pull out my mm2, because it is 3.0 and the effort to convert it is usually too big a hassle. Especially if i can pull something similar enough from one of the others.

That said my favorite two are the first and fifth. I also get a lot of use from libris mortis and lords of madness.
Goof
12-13-07, 11:26 AM :thumbsup:
Officially, it's 20% of your resources. Of course, a heavily optomized (or un-optomized) party can wreak havoc with those numbers. Also, the later MM's (MM3+) tend to have monsters that are more powerful for their CR. MM3 is especially bad about this.

Bah, got it backwords! That is what I get for spouting numbers while at work.

So lets see, MM2 is junk (3.0, etc) So if I was to buy an additional MM which one? MM3 or MM5, other?
Talisman
12-13-07, 11:36 AM Either MM3 or MM5. MM3 has overpowered monsters, so you'll have to either bunmp their CRs up a point or two, or only use them against optomized PCs. MM5 uses the "new" stat block (which I hate) and wastes several pages on advanced versions of common monsters, but most of the stuff there is quite good.

MM4 is dreck. I have a copy 'cause I got it cheap, but I only like about 10% of the monsters therein. Ooh, and there's lots and lots of "advanced" orcs, ogres, etc!
Dead_Weasel
12-14-07, 01:09 AM MM4 is dreck.I would like to see the joker responsible for the lizardfolk entry thrashed. Giant wasp riders, indeed! And the gnolls!

Hot poker in the eye oughta fix him good, maybe one with extra spiky bits, mumble mumble iron maiden grumble grumble lemon juice...

I do like the new statblock, but only for running a monster. The original is far better for looking at/tinkering with, etc.
Damned slayer
12-14-07, 05:39 PM dunno I like the MM4 might be because I use lots of spawns (draconian campaign)
but ya MM4 and MM5 have lots of upgraded monsters, can be fun if you throw orcs at PC like lvl 7-8 and the laugh until they get hit :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Narzol87 12-12-07, 08:33 AM	Okey.... can someone tell me... How the heck does Challenge Rating work ? Here is why I'm wondering; Page 87 Monster Manual V Hobgoblin Warsoul CR 8 10 hit dice Bab +9 (as a fighter) Good will and Ref Saves. Spells as a 9th level Wizard. Iron Will as Bonus Feat. 2 Supernatural Abilities 2 Extraordinary Abilities And generally being a hobgoblin which is pretty nasty in itself. So concluding, I am Slightly how the Challenge Rating is calculated... Does Anyone out there have an answer ^,^?
Goof 12-12-07, 11:51 AM	Challenge rating is for an average party of 4 of that level will be expected to use up 80% of their resources to beat. (I think) It's in the early pages of the monster manual, and in the DM guide you can look up using say X level Y characters to equal a challenge rating of Z.
Krusk 12-12-07, 07:37 PM	Challenge rating is for an average party of 4 of that level will be expected to use up 80% of their resources to beat. (I think) It's in the early pages of the monster manual, and in the DM guide you can look up using say X level Y characters to equal a challenge rating of Z. Thought it was 20-25% of the reasources? that way you can have 3-4 encounters a day without using up 320% of your reasources.
Talisman 12-12-07, 07:48 PM	Thought it was 20-25% of the reasources? that way you can have 3-4 encounters a day without using up 320% of your reasources. :thumbsup: Officially, it's 20% of your resources. Of course, a heavily optomized (or un-optomized) party can wreak havoc with those numbers. Also, the later MM's (MM3+) tend to have monsters that are more powerful for their CR. MM3 is especially bad about this.
ff6shadow 12-12-07, 08:42 PM	Eh, MM2 is worse than MM3 for wrong CR's. But even the ones in the original are off occasionally are wrong.
Talisman 12-12-07, 09:21 PM	Eh, MM2 is worse than MM3 for wrong CR's. But even the ones in the original are off occasionally are wrong. MM2 is far and away the worst for wrong CRs. However, MM3 holds the crown for beasties that are powerful for their CR.
ff6shadow 12-12-07, 10:23 PM	Strong, wrong, both have a tendency to cause TPK's. I tend to avoid both books without alot of caution.
Talisman 12-12-07, 11:12 PM	I actually like MM3 a lot...my players tend to be fiendishly cunning at strategy and resource management, so I enjoy finding beasties that can challenge them "as-is." The charnal hound was a lot of fun. :devil:
Krusk 12-13-07, 12:15 AM	I rarely pull out my mm2, because it is 3.0 and the effort to convert it is usually too big a hassle. Especially if i can pull something similar enough from one of the others. That said my favorite two are the first and fifth. I also get a lot of use from libris mortis and lords of madness.
Goof 12-13-07, 11:26 AM	:thumbsup: Officially, it's 20% of your resources. Of course, a heavily optomized (or un-optomized) party can wreak havoc with those numbers. Also, the later MM's (MM3+) tend to have monsters that are more powerful for their CR. MM3 is especially bad about this. Bah, got it backwords! That is what I get for spouting numbers while at work. So lets see, MM2 is junk (3.0, etc) So if I was to buy an additional MM which one? MM3 or MM5, other?
Talisman 12-13-07, 11:36 AM	Either MM3 or MM5. MM3 has overpowered monsters, so you'll have to either bunmp their CRs up a point or two, or only use them against optomized PCs. MM5 uses the "new" stat block (which I hate) and wastes several pages on advanced versions of common monsters, but most of the stuff there is quite good. MM4 is dreck. I have a copy 'cause I got it cheap, but I only like about 10% of the monsters therein. Ooh, and there's lots and lots of "advanced" orcs, ogres, etc!
Dead_Weasel 12-14-07, 01:09 AM	MM4 is dreck.I would like to see the joker responsible for the lizardfolk entry thrashed. Giant wasp riders, indeed! And the gnolls! Hot poker in the eye oughta fix him good, maybe one with extra spiky bits, mumble mumble iron maiden grumble grumble lemon juice... I do like the new statblock, but only for running a monster. The original is far better for looking at/tinkering with, etc.
Damned slayer 12-14-07, 05:39 PM	dunno I like the MM4 might be because I use lots of spawns (draconian campaign) but ya MM4 and MM5 have lots of upgraded monsters, can be fun if you throw orcs at PC like lvl 7-8 and the laugh until they get hit :)