changing type [Archive] - Wizards Community

changing type [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
footdownatgreen
05-07-05, 07:01 PM What would happen if a undead creature changed to outsider? Say if a Mumified (from the book of undead) monk reached level 20 and gained perfect self. All of his hit dice are d12's from being an undead, but any gained levels he would no longer be an undead even though all future HD are to be d12's. And what about his constitution does he gain one? The undead traits should be replaced by the outsider traits but to what extent?

Thanks
Sildatorak
05-08-05, 03:33 AM In this case, someone with savage species will have to enlighten you as to whether undead trumps outsider or not. Basically the types are arranged in a pyramid with some being higher than others. I know that outsider is in the top rank, but undead is high up in it as well. IIRC, even if you overlap multiple types you still generally keep the traits of all of them, so it only matters for things like bane weapons.

Regarding your specific questions-
future HD will be d12, too
a con score is not gained
footdownatgreen
05-08-05, 08:32 PM Thanks for the answer. So does any one with SS have the answer to what else would happen?
Slagger the Chuul
05-09-05, 08:38 AM Savage Species addresses this in the context of templates, not the changes made by a class ability, though the arrangement could be easily applied to this sort of change.

To address the question directly; constructs, outsiders, and undead are at the top level of priority (overriding all lesser types). In general, you can replace types of the same level with each other (there is no restriction preventing this), but in the specific case of constructs and undead, Savage Species notes that they cannot become another creature type because of their lack of a Constitution score.

Since you aren't likely to gain a Constitution score anytime soon, I'd favour remaining undead, though you should still get the damage reduction. In any case, the example of a 20th-level mummified monk wouldn't have gained the traits or features of outsider HD anyway (since it's using the monk class, not racial HD), so the fact that it doesn't change type is only important for things that specifically target the undead or outsider types.
Shemeska the Marauder
05-09-05, 11:13 AM Conceptually it doesn't wholly fit either, to have an undead become an outsider. I'd still give the character the benefits more or less for that level of the class, but I wouldn't change their type.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
footdownatgreen 05-07-05, 07:01 PM	What would happen if a undead creature changed to outsider? Say if a Mumified (from the book of undead) monk reached level 20 and gained perfect self. All of his hit dice are d12's from being an undead, but any gained levels he would no longer be an undead even though all future HD are to be d12's. And what about his constitution does he gain one? The undead traits should be replaced by the outsider traits but to what extent? Thanks
Sildatorak 05-08-05, 03:33 AM	In this case, someone with savage species will have to enlighten you as to whether undead trumps outsider or not. Basically the types are arranged in a pyramid with some being higher than others. I know that outsider is in the top rank, but undead is high up in it as well. IIRC, even if you overlap multiple types you still generally keep the traits of all of them, so it only matters for things like bane weapons. Regarding your specific questions- future HD will be d12, too a con score is not gained
footdownatgreen 05-08-05, 08:32 PM	Thanks for the answer. So does any one with SS have the answer to what else would happen?
Slagger the Chuul 05-09-05, 08:38 AM	Savage Species addresses this in the context of templates, not the changes made by a class ability, though the arrangement could be easily applied to this sort of change. To address the question directly; constructs, outsiders, and undead are at the top level of priority (overriding all lesser types). In general, you can replace types of the same level with each other (there is no restriction preventing this), but in the specific case of constructs and undead, Savage Species notes that they cannot become another creature type because of their lack of a Constitution score. Since you aren't likely to gain a Constitution score anytime soon, I'd favour remaining undead, though you should still get the damage reduction. In any case, the example of a 20th-level mummified monk wouldn't have gained the traits or features of outsider HD anyway (since it's using the monk class, not racial HD), so the fact that it doesn't change type is only important for things that specifically target the undead or outsider types.
Shemeska the Marauder 05-09-05, 11:13 AM	Conceptually it doesn't wholly fit either, to have an undead become an outsider. I'd still give the character the benefits more or less for that level of the class, but I wouldn't change their type.