Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Vorpal Tribble 09-30-06, 10:41 PM	I was noticing of late just how strange elemental creatures are. First off they are not immune to mind-affecting effect. Despite the fact they are made of dirt and fire, somehow there is enough common ground for you to use mental abilities. However, an intelligent undead, which in most instances still has an intact and usable brain is immune. But then heres the kicker and the reason for the title. They are not immune to disease! Despite the fact an elemental could be made of living flame, it can still catch a cold. They don't even have internal organs, cannot be backstabbed or the like, but yet they can still get the sniffles? This boggles my mind. I'm trying to figure out how this hasn't been noticed and fixed.
Insane Pixie 09-30-06, 11:38 PM	First off they are not immune to mind-affecting effect. Despite the fact they are made of dirt and fire, somehow there is enough common ground for you to use mental abilities. However, an intelligent undead, which in most instances still has an intact and usable brain is immune. An elemental has an Intelligence score. It is sentient, it can think, it has a mind to be affected. An intelligent Undead's brain has already died once, it's not inconcievable that it would have some kind of immunity. Besides, who says an undead uses its brain to think? It is magic, and there are intelligent skeletons. No brain there, right? But then heres the kicker and the reason for the title. They are not immune to disease! Despite the fact an elemental could be made of living flame, it can still catch a cold. They don't even have internal organs, cannot be backstabbed or the like, but yet they can still get the sniffles? This boggles my mind. Well, I'd rule that 'immune to poison' would cover disease, but it doesn't. Either way, a cold is not a disease, it's just a virus. It's not inconcievable for an elemental to get something like Cackle Fever or the Shakes. Plus, there's no disease called The Sniffles.
cog_and_taz 09-30-06, 11:53 PM	Sniffles= a cold, figure of speech... Anyways, virus or not, it messes up the internal organs, that's what causes the symptoms. And eles have... what organs? As for mindless, they aren't, but either make them immune to mind-affecting crap or make intelligent undead vulnerable too, I say. Salamanders and such, ofcourse, are a different story... Oh, and if they are mindless, how can you make deals with them using planar binding and such?
The Vorpal Tribble 10-01-06, 12:27 AM	Besides, who says an undead uses its brain to think? It is magic, and there are intelligent skeletons. No brain there, right? And a puff of air has a natural, non-magical brain? Either way, a cold is not a disease, it's just a virus. Umm, I was under the impression that a virus and a disease kind of walked hand in hand? It's not inconcievable for an elemental to get something like Cackle Fever or the Shakes. Actually, its absolutely inconceivable for an elemental to get Cackle Fever. Elementals don't breathe. Cackle Fever is an inhaled disease. Anyways, we're talking about walking clumps of dirt, sentient air, babbling brooks. They don't have a system to harbor diseases.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 10-01-06, 01:18 AM	And a puff of air has a natural, non-magical brain? Yep. It just isn't squishy.
cog_and_taz 10-01-06, 01:41 AM	Next edition: the schizophrenic elemental!:P
Insane Pixie 10-01-06, 01:53 AM	Note that not all elementals are puffs of wind or wisps of flame. Take the emberling, geodite, tempestan, arctine out of CPsi.
Roivas 10-01-06, 04:04 AM	Elementals are a weird enemy anyways, they rarely get encountred unless you are fighting a summoner, a druid, or the elemental planes. I've never seen the big bad villian turn out to be an air elemental, and I don't think there are any elementals that are playable as PCs. They're such a rarely used monster their kinks might never be worked out.
The Vorpal Tribble 10-01-06, 08:59 AM	Note that not all elementals are puffs of wind or wisps of flame. Take the emberling, geodite, tempestan, arctine out of CPsi. Sorry, those don't exist.
cog_and_taz 10-01-06, 11:02 AM	Sorry, taking that back:(.
Nimbus 10-01-06, 11:09 AM	I believe he means the book itself doesn't exist.
The Vorpal Tribble 10-01-06, 11:50 AM	I believe he means the book itself doesn't exist. What book?
Nimbus 10-01-06, 04:43 PM	Exactly.
Insane Pixie 10-01-06, 05:06 PM	Sorry, those don't exist. Open up your copy of Complete Psionics and think again. Elemental stewards, p130-133. EDIT: Emberling and Geodite http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cpsi_gallery/96383.jpg Arctine and Tempestan http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cpsi_gallery/96384.jpg
Eela6 10-01-06, 05:21 PM	Open up your copy of [Random Babbling] and think again. What are you babbling about? Everyone knows that the only 3.5 Psionic book is the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Wizards would never make a book that disgraced both the Complete Series and Psionics. Right?
The Vorpal Tribble 10-01-06, 05:41 PM	*spells it out for the Pixie* They do not exist because my mind tries to crawl into its own little fetal position just trying to contemplate the idiocy that is Elemental :censored:.
Insane Pixie 10-01-06, 05:56 PM	*spells it out for the Pixie* They do not exist because my mind tries to crawl into its own little fetal position just trying to contemplate the idiocy that is Elemental :censored:. Sorry, but one part Internet + one part Sarcasm ≠ two parts Clarity. Either way, there's no better type for elementals. The elemental stewards could easily be outsiders, but the only type that could ever possibly fit pure energy elementals would be ooze, and that'd be a stretch in itself.
journeyman777 10-01-06, 08:50 PM	An elemental can get sick? Wow, I wonder what simptoms they get? Can a sick air elemental sneeze itself out of existence? Does a fire elemental with a cold change subtypes? If an water elemental develops a fever, does it boil away? If an earth elemental has constipation, how do you tell?
Slagger the Chuul 10-01-06, 11:21 PM	An elemental can get sick? Wow, I wonder what simptoms they get? Can a sick air elemental sneeze itself out of existence? Does a fire elemental with a cold change subtypes? If an water elemental develops a fever, does it boil away? If an earth elemental has constipation, how do you tell? Just a thought; didn't something similar to a water elemental get sick in Spirited Away (although I admit that it wasn't from a regular disease).
Insane Pixie 10-01-06, 11:24 PM	Just a thought; didn't something similar to a water elemental get sick in Spirited Away (although I admit that it wasn't from a regular disease). Yeah, it did. It was a sludge-like water spirit that had been constantly polluted over time, and came to the bath house to be cleansed of all the junk. I'd say that's kind of a supernatural disease.
ElvenOutlaw 10-20-06, 09:48 AM	I wanted to post on this a few days ago, but wasn't able to get around to it till now. Elementals as described in the back of the MM3 have a "Dual Nature - It's soul and body form one unit. When slain, no soul is set loose." So in turn Elementals are basically intelligent spirits that have chosen to manifest themselves through aspects of nature, Be in a walking pile of rocks, a whirlwind of dust, or a neverending blazing fire. With that I see no problem as to mind-affecting spells/abilites working on them. They are beings capable of speech and intelligent thought. Given most elementals don't get a Int score in double digits until they're Greater or Elders but never the less. As for elementals getting a cold...Elementals are immune to Poison, Sleep Effects, Paralysis and Stunning. Also they do not eat, sleep or breathe. Any diseases that have infection via Ingested or Inhaled are automatically ignored right away then. That leaves contact and injury. I'd really say this comes down to the DM's call. Honestly in my mind I can't see something like Slimy Doom or Red Ache affecting a elemental, as they have no internal organs or skin. I would allow something like Mummy Rot however since it is a Supernatural Disease/Curse. The elemental isn't "rotting" but its ability to hold it's physical form would be weaking as its Con dropped. In Short - Mind-Affecting Spells/Abilities - Yes Normal Disease - No Magical/Supernatural Disease - Yes /w DM Ruling That's just my 2 coppers though. Orignally Posted by Roivas Elementals are a weird enemy anyways, they rarely get encountred unless you are fighting a summoner, a druid, or the elemental planes. I've never seen the big bad villian turn out to be an air elemental, and I don't think there are any elementals that are playable as PCs. They're such a rarely used monster their kinks might never be worked out. Obviously you've neved played in one of my campaigns. :D The Elemental Minions from Dragonlance have made wonderful villians for me. They're a LA +3 if I remember correctly. BBEG with his lair down in the volcano, along with his Fire Weird mistress/oracle. Fun Fun But I do agree with them never being fixed though. The Para-elementals seemed to have been sweeped under the rug with 3.5 after the sad horror that was Manual of the Planes ,the Quasi elementals have not even seen the light of day with 3rd Edition, & the Basic elementals get little to no attention. ...:weep: I'm going to go hug my Planescape books now