Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eggplantm 06-15-04, 10:20 AM	When I look at the 5 core evil and good dragons I notice that there does not seems to be a balance. There are lawful evil dragons and chaotic evil dragons but why no neutral evil dragons? The same is true of the metallic dragons. No Neutral good dragons. The gem dragons at least have some balance. There are neutral, chaotic neutral and lawful neutral. I can only assume that this is a hold over from the original monster manual days when every monster was either chaotic evil or lawful evil if it was evil at all. Only when we got up to the fiend folio and monster manual 2 did neutral evil critters come into view (I'm referring to the original versions of these books). I'm inclined to believe that if the designers took an approach to it to try to balance things out (which I'm a big fan of). They would have at least two chromatic dragons for every evil alignment and follow similar suit for the metallic and gem versions. Here's my donation to the idea. Lawful Evil Dragons Blue Green Neutral Evil Dragons Black Yellow (Lives in grassy plains, earth subtype, breath weapon is Sonic, smaller than white dragon) Chaotic Evil Dragons Red White Lawful Good Dragons Gold Silver Neutral Good Dragons Bronze Mithral (forests, Air Subtype, breath weapon is sonic, smaller than brass) Chaotic Good Dragons Brass Copper Lawful Neutral Dragons Saphire Emerald Neutral Dragons Amythyst Opal (Red with yellow flecks, fire subtype, elemental plane of fire, breath weapon is a blast of light that fatigues those who fail the initial reflex save and the fortitude save for the effect, smaller than crystal dragon) Chaotic Neutral Dragons Crystal Topaz :D
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 06-15-04, 11:50 AM	my only problem is with the mithral dragon, which breaks the tradition of metallic dragons decreasing in size and power as the metal they're based on decreases in value. Mithral is definitely NOT cheaper than brass. Also, adding another chromatic dragon would require a change in Tiamat's appearance... Interesting thought, though
eggplantm 06-15-04, 12:08 PM	I agree about the mithral dragon but I wanted to give them an air subtype dragon. You could make the iron dragon and have it be the earth subtype. Maybe the yellow dragons are currently not in favor with tiamat? Small change though unless tiamat interacts heavily in your world.
Adrez Nesnsid 06-15-04, 04:24 PM	Here's one fromon old "Psionic Bestiary" article from the D&D website:Obsidian Dragon (NE) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030124b) I still can't think of any Neutral good dragons though. :(
Feathercircle 06-15-04, 11:21 PM	Also, there's already a yellow dragon in existance- it was in the 2nd Edition Monster Manual, and I believe that the 3e version is in Monsters of Faerun. It's breath weapon is a blast of sand, if you're curious. For some reason, sonic breath weapons seem to be reserved solely for the gem dragons, which is rather ironic considering their psionic nature- they're likely to favor crystal items far more than other dragons, despite the typical weakness of gems to sonic damage. Pff. Anyway, if you want to continue the metallic tradition for sizes, you may want to consider something like tin rather than the more valuable mythril. The obsidian dragon... now that's just sodding WEIRD. Neutral Evil implies chromatic, but it's a GEM dragon... I suppose it has a precedent, though, in the Lawful Neutral steel dragon... though that still doesn't qualify as a true metallic, since it has only a single breath weapon. (Which reminds me, you neglected that aspect on your mythril dragon. What's the secondary breath weapon?) To make things even more peculiar, there was already an obsidian dragon in the Greyhawk setting, which is completely different from the one linked. It's cold-subtype, Lawful, tending towards Good, has no psionics like a proper (non-Mystaran) gem dragon, and its breath weapon is acidic frost. And just to add to the strangeness, it's got a secondary breath weapon, like a metallic... an immobilizing web of black ice. It's in Dragon 146, if anyone's interested.
eggplantm 06-16-04, 11:26 AM	I remember the yellow dragon but I never cared for it because its environment was desserts. We already had an evil dragon for that environment that was well established and recognized. Why did we need another? I thought the same thing about the brown dragon as well. I agree with your assessment that sonic may need to be reserved for the gem dragons. Not all have sonic but all have a breath weapon that is very difficult for most things to defend against and many also have a secondary effect if you fail the initial reflex save. The trends seem to be: Chromatic dragons: One energy based breath weapon (no sonic) Metallic Dragons: One energy breath weapon and one non-lethal breath weapon. Gem Dragons: One energy breath weapon of sonic or another difficult to resist source such as force, light or dehydration. Most have a secondary effect for those that fail their reflex saves. Okay so let's try again. Neutral Evil Dragons Black Dragon (a change) Yellow Dragon (Earth Subtype, Terrain: Warm Plains, Breath Weapon: Fire?, Smaller than White dragon but not as unintelligent) Neutral Good Dragons Bronze Dragon (A change) Tin Dragon (Air Subtype, Terrain: Cold Plains, Breath Weapon: line of cold or cone of gas that fatiques those who fail their fort save for 1d6 rounds +1 round per age category of dragon, Smaller than Brass but very good flyer) True Neutral Dragons Amythyst Dragon Opal Dragon (Red with yellow flecks, fire subtype, elemental plane of fire, breath weapon is a blast of light that fatigues those who fail the initial reflex save and the fortitude save for the effect, smaller than crystal dragon)
Gez 06-16-04, 12:52 PM	The Yellow Dragon existed in 2e. They lived in deserts, like the Blue and Brown dragons. The Yellow's breath weapon was a cone of scorching sand. Next to the metallic, you also had the ferrous dragons. They were evil or neutrals. The Steel Dragon (LN) is an example. Cobalt dragon (LE), Mercury Dragon (NG), and a few others. There were probably a mithril dragon and an adamantine dragon in a Dragon magazine. I don't know if there was a magazine dragon, but it would be a frightening creature. Then you have the psionic gem dragons (LN, N, and CN), and the druidic amber dragon (N or NG).
Adrez Nesnsid 06-17-04, 11:41 AM	(From Draconomicon): Battle Dragon: NG Chaos Dragon: Chaotic (Any) Ethereal Dragon: True Neutral Howling Dragon: CN or CE Oceanus Dragon: NG Pyroclastic Dragon: LE OR NE Radiant Dragon: LG Rust Dragon: LE or LN Styx Dragon: NE Tartarian Dragon: NE or CE
SirGog 06-18-04, 06:03 AM	I've designed a Yellow Dragon, which has the [Sonic] subtype, has a breath weapon which is a roar which deals (age category)*d20 damage and is slightly stronger than a gold dragon of the same age. I didn't make it evil (it wasn't considered one of the chromatic dragons, I'd made it AL=often true neutral), but it can certainally fit in as your sixth chromatic. As for a mithril dragon: It should be slightly stronger than my yellow dragon (9HD medium size as wyrmling, growing to 45HD colossal as great wyrm), as mithril is more precious than gold. It should have a high dexterity and exceptional manouverability for a dragon. As a quick-and-dirty approach, take a gold dragon of a given age, add 2HD, change breath weapon from Xd10 fire to Xd12 sonic, give it +10 Dex and -3 natural AC, chage second breath weapon to a cone of sticky gunk which slows anyone who fails their save (as the spell). Actually, I might brew this one up later and post it here...