Chromatic Dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chromatic Dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Maladaar
05-03-04, 03:05 AM I posted this on the Monster's Lair board, but it may be better suited to this one.

What would a mix of the 5 chromatic dragons look like? Both physically and statistically.

I am thinking about having a dragon that was either bred (or magically created) from all five of the chromatic dragons. I know that usually for templates you would use the weaker over the stronger, but in this case I am looking to go the opposite way.

Reason: I want to create a scenario where this "chromatic" dragon spawned from each of the 5 colors attempts to unite all of the dragons in a type of dragon war against all of the other races.

(1 being the most powerful and 5 being the least powerful this is assuming that they are all in the same age category)

1. Red
2. Blue
3. Green
4. Black
5. White

Any suggestions? What would be the best way to overlay the templates?
Crimson Hellkite
05-03-04, 04:12 AM Check out the prismatic dragon in the Epic Level Handbook.
Maladaar
05-03-04, 04:21 AM I will have to check that out. I do have the book, just have not had the chance to peruse through it yet.
Derren S.
05-03-04, 07:45 AM You could use a prismatic dragon. But it would probably too strong for anyone in Krynn to defeat, players included.
Krothos
05-03-04, 09:39 AM I believe this "chromatic dragon" would be actually Tiamat. This dragon exists outside the Prime Material plan and is consider the God of all chromatic dragons. Quite power with 5 heads (1 of each color), each head producing its own relative breath weapon, massive spells, and abilities. If any PC met her on the Prime Material Plane, it would be best to RUN!!!! :smirk:

Seriously, check out the Dracomonicon (sp?) for her description.
Maladaar
05-03-04, 11:18 PM Believe me, I have been playing long enough (20+ years) to know about Tiamat and Takhisis.

I want this to be a mortal, single-headed dragon from the prime material plane, which is why I was thinking about using the dragon templates.

I want something that can be eventually be defeated without having to give the PCs all kinds of munchkin magical items.

I want it to start out as some sort of rumor. Someone had mentioned the Prismatic dragon from the Epic handbook, but these guys are not near epic level yet.

I do appreciate the suggestions though.
DracoDM01
05-03-04, 11:58 PM What if you were to give this all mighty dragon some sort of flaw that would make it easier to fight? Such as a vunerability to good aligned stuff because it is evil?
Maladaar
05-04-04, 01:13 AM I am up for any suggestions, like I said it was an idea I started tinkering with last night.

Right now, I am just mulling ideas over.

Our campaign is in DL, which does have Takhisis as a goddess and she is unable manifest herself on Krynn. I started thinking about how although the stories always have the evil dragons fighting with evil creatures (humans included) to take over Krynn, what if there was a hybrid dragon (comprised of each of the 5) that was gathering allies (other evil dragons) not only to wage war on the good, but evil creatures as well.

Starting out with a small alliance, which might grow over time. It could be quite interesting to see what types of alliances could form to fight this NEW threat to ALL of Krynn.

I am trying to figure out what the stats of this "chromatic" dragon would be first and then I would like to think of things that might be its weakness.
DracoDM01
05-04-04, 01:39 AM What you have to remember is that even if the other creature is evil, the original creature only thinks of himself. It is almost immposible to have many very evil creatures together is a group unless there is a very very very strong demon or devil behind them. Also the dragon would have to be magicaly created because the evil dragons do not like each other. They would be constantly bickering over who was supreme.

Also the idea of the hybrid dragon being respected by the other dragons is no question. But what about the other races, would they not see him as a threat to their way of life?

All just suggestions.
Maladaar
05-04-04, 01:46 AM I am not sure if you are familiar with DL, but there is a race called draconians (dragonmen) that were created by magically-altering the eggs of the good dragons.

I was thinking of using something to similar except that this "chromatic" dragon would be created by using one egg of each of the 5 evil dragons. Even the aging would have been affected, which is why this "at least" mature dragon would seem to have appeared from nowhere.

Takhisis would be the driving factor behind the dragons slowly coming to the cause of this "chromatic" dragon. As all of the evil dragons are loyal to Takhisis (or are at least supposed to be).

I was thinking that a few evil dragons might not heed the call, as seeing this cause being "reckless".

Again just ideas. Yes, I think that most other races (good and evil alike) would see this as a threat.
Freefall
05-04-04, 02:30 AM I really think that just taking one of the chromatics as a base creature and adding special abilities and qualities from the other species would be the best way to get what you want. The half-dragon template doesn't make sense to me when applied to other dragons (not the one in the MM anyway, maybe there's another one for dragons). It seems to be written with the assumption that the "other" half is something inherently inferior to a dragon. To me it makes no sense at all that having a half-white dragon red dragon would make the thing stronger than a full-blooded red dragon. On the other hand, its frost breath would be incredibly puny compared to an actual white dragon.

Of course, if you want the thing to be physically more powerful than any other dragons, you can go ahead and add the half-dragon template to one of them 4 times and get the whole +20 to natural AC and +32 to str and all the rest (and a lot of puny 6d8 damage breath weapons). I just don't think that the template was made with the idea of applying it to other dragon species (or anything even comparable to dragons).

BTW, the Prismatic Dragon isn't anything like what you're looking for. It is a dragon that is based on prismatic effects (P. Spray/Sphere/Wall). They can certainly be of evil alignment, but they really aren't anything like a combination of the different chromatics (they don't have any of their immunities or breath weapons, for example; they are immune to prismatic effects and breathe the Prismatic Spray spell as their breath weapons; they are very much their own kind of dragon).

Also, even a wyrmling Prismatic Dragon is a little bit tougher, overall, than an adult Red Dragon. That seems a bit more powerful than what you are looking for.
Maladaar
05-04-04, 02:51 AM I really do have to sit down and look through both the MM 3.5 and Draconomicon to see what the templates look like.

I wanted to get some feedback from the boards before I started just to get ideas about what I should consider when undertaking this.

On one thread someone stated depending how you overlap the template (by applying them correctly) the resulting new creature (dragon) could be more powerful than either of the original creatures (dragons).

From what I have heard you are correct in that the prismatic dragon is not what I am really looking for.

I am thinking that maybe the less mature evil dragons would be rash enough to join this cause while the more mature dragons would be divided as to where to join this force or possibly (believe it or not) aid the good and evil races of Krynn to fight off this threat.

(Oh boy the wheels are spinning!)
DracoDM01
05-04-04, 09:48 AM I actualy run a dragon campaign and am familiar with draconians.

Also you could have the aging affected but not that it is just an adult. Its aging could be accelerated so the charecters would face it diffrent times at diffrent age groups. The dragon could escape or leave them "dead" each time.

In my campaign I had all of the evil dragons finnaly decide that the humanoids were not fit to control the earth. They pushed all of them off to a small island in the east. This could be a reason why they are becoming "friends"?
Maladaar
05-04-04, 01:59 PM Something to that effect. The creation of this "aberration" of evil dragons seeks to destroy/enslave not just the good creatures, but all creatures. A world totally dominated by evil dragons.

I like the idea of accelerated aging. Could actually have the PCs encounter it shortly after it hatches, let it escape and face the PCs several times. That is an awesome idea.
DracoDM01
05-04-04, 11:27 PM thank you:D:D
Maladaar
05-04-04, 11:47 PM Expanding on your idea of accelerated aging and the PCs encountering it shortly after hatching.

I am thinking that during the battle before the hatchling escapes that it is somehow physically scarred. That way when they encounter it again, I can describe the scar so they can figure out this is in fact the same dragon.
DracoDM01
05-06-04, 02:11 AM That is an interesting idea. You could have the PC's about to strike a deathblow and then the creator comes and stops you???? Or you could have it use the same tactics as it did before. There are endless posibilities to what they could recognize him by.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maladaar 05-03-04, 03:05 AM	I posted this on the Monster's Lair board, but it may be better suited to this one. What would a mix of the 5 chromatic dragons look like? Both physically and statistically. I am thinking about having a dragon that was either bred (or magically created) from all five of the chromatic dragons. I know that usually for templates you would use the weaker over the stronger, but in this case I am looking to go the opposite way. Reason: I want to create a scenario where this "chromatic" dragon spawned from each of the 5 colors attempts to unite all of the dragons in a type of dragon war against all of the other races. (1 being the most powerful and 5 being the least powerful this is assuming that they are all in the same age category) 1. Red 2. Blue 3. Green 4. Black 5. White Any suggestions? What would be the best way to overlay the templates?
Crimson Hellkite 05-03-04, 04:12 AM	Check out the prismatic dragon in the Epic Level Handbook.
Maladaar 05-03-04, 04:21 AM	I will have to check that out. I do have the book, just have not had the chance to peruse through it yet.
Derren S. 05-03-04, 07:45 AM	You could use a prismatic dragon. But it would probably too strong for anyone in Krynn to defeat, players included.
Krothos 05-03-04, 09:39 AM	I believe this "chromatic dragon" would be actually Tiamat. This dragon exists outside the Prime Material plan and is consider the God of all chromatic dragons. Quite power with 5 heads (1 of each color), each head producing its own relative breath weapon, massive spells, and abilities. If any PC met her on the Prime Material Plane, it would be best to RUN!!!! :smirk: Seriously, check out the Dracomonicon (sp?) for her description.
Maladaar 05-03-04, 11:18 PM	Believe me, I have been playing long enough (20+ years) to know about Tiamat and Takhisis. I want this to be a mortal, single-headed dragon from the prime material plane, which is why I was thinking about using the dragon templates. I want something that can be eventually be defeated without having to give the PCs all kinds of munchkin magical items. I want it to start out as some sort of rumor. Someone had mentioned the Prismatic dragon from the Epic handbook, but these guys are not near epic level yet. I do appreciate the suggestions though.
DracoDM01 05-03-04, 11:58 PM	What if you were to give this all mighty dragon some sort of flaw that would make it easier to fight? Such as a vunerability to good aligned stuff because it is evil?
Maladaar 05-04-04, 01:13 AM	I am up for any suggestions, like I said it was an idea I started tinkering with last night. Right now, I am just mulling ideas over. Our campaign is in DL, which does have Takhisis as a goddess and she is unable manifest herself on Krynn. I started thinking about how although the stories always have the evil dragons fighting with evil creatures (humans included) to take over Krynn, what if there was a hybrid dragon (comprised of each of the 5) that was gathering allies (other evil dragons) not only to wage war on the good, but evil creatures as well. Starting out with a small alliance, which might grow over time. It could be quite interesting to see what types of alliances could form to fight this NEW threat to ALL of Krynn. I am trying to figure out what the stats of this "chromatic" dragon would be first and then I would like to think of things that might be its weakness.
DracoDM01 05-04-04, 01:39 AM	What you have to remember is that even if the other creature is evil, the original creature only thinks of himself. It is almost immposible to have many very evil creatures together is a group unless there is a very very very strong demon or devil behind them. Also the dragon would have to be magicaly created because the evil dragons do not like each other. They would be constantly bickering over who was supreme. Also the idea of the hybrid dragon being respected by the other dragons is no question. But what about the other races, would they not see him as a threat to their way of life? All just suggestions.
Maladaar 05-04-04, 01:46 AM	I am not sure if you are familiar with DL, but there is a race called draconians (dragonmen) that were created by magically-altering the eggs of the good dragons. I was thinking of using something to similar except that this "chromatic" dragon would be created by using one egg of each of the 5 evil dragons. Even the aging would have been affected, which is why this "at least" mature dragon would seem to have appeared from nowhere. Takhisis would be the driving factor behind the dragons slowly coming to the cause of this "chromatic" dragon. As all of the evil dragons are loyal to Takhisis (or are at least supposed to be). I was thinking that a few evil dragons might not heed the call, as seeing this cause being "reckless". Again just ideas. Yes, I think that most other races (good and evil alike) would see this as a threat.
Freefall 05-04-04, 02:30 AM	I really think that just taking one of the chromatics as a base creature and adding special abilities and qualities from the other species would be the best way to get what you want. The half-dragon template doesn't make sense to me when applied to other dragons (not the one in the MM anyway, maybe there's another one for dragons). It seems to be written with the assumption that the "other" half is something inherently inferior to a dragon. To me it makes no sense at all that having a half-white dragon red dragon would make the thing stronger than a full-blooded red dragon. On the other hand, its frost breath would be incredibly puny compared to an actual white dragon. Of course, if you want the thing to be physically more powerful than any other dragons, you can go ahead and add the half-dragon template to one of them 4 times and get the whole +20 to natural AC and +32 to str and all the rest (and a lot of puny 6d8 damage breath weapons). I just don't think that the template was made with the idea of applying it to other dragon species (or anything even comparable to dragons). BTW, the Prismatic Dragon isn't anything like what you're looking for. It is a dragon that is based on prismatic effects (P. Spray/Sphere/Wall). They can certainly be of evil alignment, but they really aren't anything like a combination of the different chromatics (they don't have any of their immunities or breath weapons, for example; they are immune to prismatic effects and breathe the Prismatic Spray spell as their breath weapons; they are very much their own kind of dragon). Also, even a wyrmling Prismatic Dragon is a little bit tougher, overall, than an adult Red Dragon. That seems a bit more powerful than what you are looking for.
Maladaar 05-04-04, 02:51 AM	I really do have to sit down and look through both the MM 3.5 and Draconomicon to see what the templates look like. I wanted to get some feedback from the boards before I started just to get ideas about what I should consider when undertaking this. On one thread someone stated depending how you overlap the template (by applying them correctly) the resulting new creature (dragon) could be more powerful than either of the original creatures (dragons). From what I have heard you are correct in that the prismatic dragon is not what I am really looking for. I am thinking that maybe the less mature evil dragons would be rash enough to join this cause while the more mature dragons would be divided as to where to join this force or possibly (believe it or not) aid the good and evil races of Krynn to fight off this threat. (Oh boy the wheels are spinning!)
DracoDM01 05-04-04, 09:48 AM	I actualy run a dragon campaign and am familiar with draconians. Also you could have the aging affected but not that it is just an adult. Its aging could be accelerated so the charecters would face it diffrent times at diffrent age groups. The dragon could escape or leave them "dead" each time. In my campaign I had all of the evil dragons finnaly decide that the humanoids were not fit to control the earth. They pushed all of them off to a small island in the east. This could be a reason why they are becoming "friends"?
Maladaar 05-04-04, 01:59 PM	Something to that effect. The creation of this "aberration" of evil dragons seeks to destroy/enslave not just the good creatures, but all creatures. A world totally dominated by evil dragons. I like the idea of accelerated aging. Could actually have the PCs encounter it shortly after it hatches, let it escape and face the PCs several times. That is an awesome idea.
DracoDM01 05-04-04, 11:27 PM	thank you:D:D
Maladaar 05-04-04, 11:47 PM	Expanding on your idea of accelerated aging and the PCs encountering it shortly after hatching. I am thinking that during the battle before the hatchling escapes that it is somehow physically scarred. That way when they encounter it again, I can describe the scar so they can figure out this is in fact the same dragon.
DracoDM01 05-06-04, 02:11 AM	That is an interesting idea. You could have the PC's about to strike a deathblow and then the creator comes and stops you???? Or you could have it use the same tactics as it did before. There are endless posibilities to what they could recognize him by.