Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Uratoh 03-19-05, 07:14 PM	After discovering Chuul have an int of 10, I decided one would make adecent 'lackey' villian, a servant of a sealed-away water god. so fairly simple, I'm giving him 7 levels of Cleric, with the water domain (and noit sure which other). I'm wondering how this affects his CR...is cleric an associated or disassociated class for a Chuul? or is it a partially disdassociated thing, or...
Vatras 03-19-05, 07:32 PM	I dont know what a chuul is, but for CR: - If its a spellcasting monster (divine) cleric is an associated class (CR +7). - If its not or an arcane type, its a non-associated class (CR+3).
Slagger the Chuul 03-20-05, 05:13 AM	I dont know what a chuul is Heathen. :nonono: The full details of improving a monster with associated or non-associated classes are covered in the "Advanced Monster Challenge Rating" section of the Monster Manual, beginning on page 293. The question is whether or not the cleric class plays to the chuul's strengths. The cleric fits best into the spellcasting classes, which isn't the chuul's area of expertise, so this would be a non-associated class (and only add half the character levels to CR). If you're taking the water domain for the ability to rebuke/command water creature (or turn/destroy fire creatures), don't forget the chuul's poor Charisma score. A completely average chuul (like the one in the Monster Manual) has a Charisma score of 5, meaning a -3 modifier and a total of 0 turning attempts per day. If you're planning to use turning, you'll need to beef up the Charisma score, or take Extra Turning as a feat.
Vatras 03-20-05, 05:39 AM	Ok, I looked it up :) This is definitely not an associated class for it, so its CR +3.
Colmarr 03-20-05, 09:10 PM	Bear in mind that by RAW, Chuul advancement is by HD. Assuming you're aware of that and have chosen to ignore it (which is a personal choice and is not right or wrong), I'm not so certain that Cleric is a nonassociated class for a Chuul. The cleric has the same BAB progression as the Chuul, and grants it the ability to wear heavy armour if it so wishes. The ability to cast buffs makes the Chuul's improved grab and paralysis abilities even better (but not necessarily better than if the Chuul had just advanced by HD). Granted, it's not as associated as say, Fighter, but it's certainly much closer to being associated than wizard. Ultimately, it's a DM call. I might consider making 7 levels of Cleric equal to +4 or +5 CR.
kliate 03-20-05, 11:00 PM	I would vote nonassociated, but don't forget to give it +1 to an ability score for those extra hit dice. It might actually get a turning attempt that way :D It wouldn't hurt to give the Chuul an elite array of stats, either. As a cleric, it could probably dump the 8 into Dex and throw on some special magic heavy armor (at a higher price for barding, of course) to boost it's AC.
Slagger the Chuul 03-21-05, 07:06 AM	Honestly, though, it probably won't get much use out of turning, and is better spending those points on something else. Heavy armour would be nice, though it will slow down the chuul's movement, which can be a major handicap since most of its power is in melee (you can't crush the spell-lobbers if you can't catch them). Two of its best spells are divine power (for a hefty boost to its offense) and air walk (to allow it to go after elusive foes), though none of the others will hurt to have. Divine power stands well ahead, though, since it will be useful in any situation, and makes the chuul's attacks more deadly (with roughly a +30 total modifier on grapple checks), so it can still compete with the fighter types who have full BAB to add to their grapple checks.