Cleaving a Hydra? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cleaving a Hydra? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Smiling_GM
03-06-07, 11:47 AM I'm wondering, is it posible to use cleave or greather cleave if you cut of one of the head of a hydra, to attack the next head?
Talisman
03-06-07, 03:18 PM No. Decapitating a hydra is treated as sundering a weapon, not dropping a foe (and thus does not trigger Cleave). If you sever the last hydra-head, you "drop" the hydra and can Cleave to another foe you threaten.
El_Machinae
03-06-07, 08:13 PM Technically, no. However, don't let that stop you if you're the DM. The mad fun of cleaving through the heads of a hydra is only going to happen once in awhile and your players will glory in the encounter for a long time afterward.

As well, thematically, it's not such a stretch.
runestar
03-06-07, 08:57 PM Plus, a hydra is counted as a single foe, and chopping off 1 head does not count as dropping a foe...;)
JosephKell
03-07-07, 05:23 PM the tactical feat Combat Brute (Complete Warrior) has a Sundering Cleave use. With that you could sunder the weapon and then make an attack on the body (but not another head).
El_Machinae
03-08-07, 08:24 AM Yeah, that looks like it could work.

But, still, it would be mad fun to chop the hell out of a hydra with the great cleave feat.
JosephKell
03-08-07, 03:37 PM Yeah, that looks like it could work.

But, still, it would be mad fun to chop the hell out of a hydra with the great cleave feat.Except that if the rules supported that, it would make killing 12-headed hydras a one-round affair. If you can get past the Hydras +25 bonus on the opposed roll that is.

But if you have Improved Sunder and use a two-handed weapon you get a total of +8 on your bonus.

Let's compare a level 6 fighter (Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Cleave, Spring Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Sunder) to a 5 headed hydra (CR 4, but this is 1 on 1).

5 headed Hydra has an opposed roll bonus of +14. Each head still has 10 hp.

The Fighter 6 (that has no race, other than being medium sized) using a greatsword (probably +1) has an opposed roll of +14 plus Str and Magic, so at level 6 probably a minimum of +17. Assuming 14 Str and +1 Greatsword, the damage is 2d6+4 with the +17 modifier.

That is why you can't cleave from weapon to weapon. But allowing a cleave from weapon to holder (via Combat Brute's Cleaving Sunder or Sundering Cleave... whatever it is called) isn't so bad.
cog_n_taz
03-08-07, 06:30 PM ...and if you kill the body, you can then get a cleaving attack on the hea...nevermind.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Smiling_GM 03-06-07, 11:47 AM	I'm wondering, is it posible to use cleave or greather cleave if you cut of one of the head of a hydra, to attack the next head?
Talisman 03-06-07, 03:18 PM	No. Decapitating a hydra is treated as sundering a weapon, not dropping a foe (and thus does not trigger Cleave). If you sever the last hydra-head, you "drop" the hydra and can Cleave to another foe you threaten.
El_Machinae 03-06-07, 08:13 PM	Technically, no. However, don't let that stop you if you're the DM. The mad fun of cleaving through the heads of a hydra is only going to happen once in awhile and your players will glory in the encounter for a long time afterward. As well, thematically, it's not such a stretch.
runestar 03-06-07, 08:57 PM	Plus, a hydra is counted as a single foe, and chopping off 1 head does not count as dropping a foe...;)
JosephKell 03-07-07, 05:23 PM	the tactical feat Combat Brute (Complete Warrior) has a Sundering Cleave use. With that you could sunder the weapon and then make an attack on the body (but not another head).
El_Machinae 03-08-07, 08:24 AM	Yeah, that looks like it could work. But, still, it would be mad fun to chop the hell out of a hydra with the great cleave feat.
JosephKell 03-08-07, 03:37 PM	Yeah, that looks like it could work. But, still, it would be mad fun to chop the hell out of a hydra with the great cleave feat.Except that if the rules supported that, it would make killing 12-headed hydras a one-round affair. If you can get past the Hydras +25 bonus on the opposed roll that is. But if you have Improved Sunder and use a two-handed weapon you get a total of +8 on your bonus. Let's compare a level 6 fighter (Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Cleave, Spring Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Sunder) to a 5 headed hydra (CR 4, but this is 1 on 1). 5 headed Hydra has an opposed roll bonus of +14. Each head still has 10 hp. The Fighter 6 (that has no race, other than being medium sized) using a greatsword (probably +1) has an opposed roll of +14 plus Str and Magic, so at level 6 probably a minimum of +17. Assuming 14 Str and +1 Greatsword, the damage is 2d6+4 with the +17 modifier. That is why you can't cleave from weapon to weapon. But allowing a cleave from weapon to holder (via Combat Brute's Cleaving Sunder or Sundering Cleave... whatever it is called) isn't so bad.
cog_n_taz 03-08-07, 06:30 PM	...and if you kill the body, you can then get a cleaving attack on the hea...nevermind.